Chinese Speaking - Reading Chinese using Shanghainese pronunciation - Page 3 -

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Reading Chinese using Shanghainese pronunciation
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gato -



Quote:

I asked a 19 yr girl to read a page out of the book I was reading with Shanghainese pronunciation
and let me record for my own fun, she was totally embarrassed but after 10 mins I convinced her.
When I played it for a male in his 20's he thought it was horrible and said he could do better.

He probably thought it was horrible because she sounded like she had to pause and think about the
Shanghainese pronunciation for a number of the words. When I was in elementary school in Shanghai
in the early 1980s, we used to read out texts in Shanghainese as a joke all the time. But that was
when Mandarin promotion just started and all the kids still spoke Shanghainese outside the
classroom and often inside. The schools nowadays are so Mandarinized that kids' Shanghainese
aren't as good as they used to be. I often hear young Shanghainese adding Mandarin words for
Shanghainese words they don't know when they are having conversations in Shanghainese.



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Tom Higgins -



Quote:

As for words unique to Shanghainese, are there many Shanghainese who are aware that their word for
東西 in Shanghainese, i.e. me zi, is 物事? Or that the word for 錢 in Shanghainese, i.e. tong
di, is 銅鈿?

A thing (东西) in Shanghainese is indeed "me zi" and the characters are 么事. This origin of
this Wu dialect word is of different origin from 东西 is. Another such example is that in
Shanghainese, "to wash" is "da" (汏).












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Chinese Online Class - Differences between Peking University and Tsinghua University -

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Chinese in Beijing
Differences between Peking University and Tsinghua University
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Huang Jialuo -

I am very certain, almost completely that I will be going to Beijing city this year's fall
semester to further my knowledge of the Chinese Language.

Because of poor timing, I passed on the date for the application deadline PKU. As a result there
are no more vacancies.
My second option is Tsinghua U. I have to admit that when I was not able to join PKU I was very
devastated.

In any case, I want to know... what are the main and subtle differences between both universities?
Will I be missing much from PKU?

Thank you.



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saiyo -

Here is my two cents...

They are both the best universities in China. In some way, I would say Tsinghua is even better
than Peking. Since you are going to study language, Peking might be a bit stronger in language
courses, since Tsinghua is better known for its sciences and engineering programs -- which, IMHO,
are too strong so as to have put Tsinghua's humanities programs into the shadow: considering the
famous author Zhu Ziqing once taught Chinese literature at Tsinghua...

All in all, hurry up and try to get yourself into Tsinghua! And they are close to each other, so
you won't miss too much fun at both campuses.










gato -

If you are going there to get a PhD in Chinese, it would make a difference. But if you are still a
beginner, the faculty teaching foreigners Chinese is going to be completely different from the
school's regular faculty, so it shouldn't matter, and the prestige of either school is not going
to matter if you are not getting a degree.

You might also want to consider Beijing Normal University, which seems to have a pretty reputation
here for teaching foreigners Chinese.

http://www. /showth...t=tsinghua+bnu
Tsinghua v BNU?












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HSK - 1 fully furnished bdr aparmt in Haidian for rent -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Classifieds
1 fully furnished bdr aparmt in Haidian for rent
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dodo0505 -

one bedroom aptmt, 65 spm, fully furnished, in a superior quality residential distrcit(nice Gym
and 24hour gate guard(u need an access card to go in, very safe)...) in Haidian district. it's
right next to Renmin University, about 15 mins walk to Beijing Foreign Studies University, and
only 15 mins by bus to Beijing University & capital Normal University and Wudaokou area. and
monthly rent is 4200RMB/mth, including Property Management Fee.

if anyone whos interested, please contact me anytime on 13717510430, Fiona. Have a nice day!



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Chinese School - Looking for a pen pal... -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Classifieds
Looking for a pen pal...
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Adrien -

Hello everyone,
I’m a Chinese university student major in English. Like most of the Chinese students I’ve
learnt English for several years but my writing is poor. I’m a sophomore and we have English
writing course in college but I don’t like the teacher who doesn’t teach us how to write, what
is correct but only points out our mistakes. I cannot learn anything from her. So I want to find a
pen pal to whom I can write in English and he/she can write to me in Chinese and we’ll help each
other to correct mistakes, improve both of our foreign languages.
My major is English and I’m very interested in western culture and movies in English. I really
want to exchange ideas with some natives. If you want to improve Chinese or if you’re interested
in China you’re absolutely welcome to write to me.
I don’t know whether it’s allowed to post this kind of notice in this volume, if it’s not
allowed I apologize in advance.
Email me to: Adrien1106@yahoo.com.cn



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Chinese language - Forums Newsletter Ideas - Page 4 -

> Learning Chinese > Resources and General Study Issues
Forums Newsletter Ideas
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roddy -

Second edition of the newsletter should be going out soon, depending on how quick off the mark I
am. Any suggestions for what should go in it? And if you haven't noticed, you can now suggest
posts for inclusion via the report post button.



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stephanhodges -

If there have been "introduce yourself" posts within the last month, those could be considered.

Items of interest to upcoming fall students, such as frequent questions, areas of the forum, etc.
There will always be new people each month.

What's planned for the next two months, etc....










stephanhodges -

are you taking paid ads?










roddy -

If anyone offers. Drop me a line via email or the contact form if you are interested.

General areas I can find easy enough - I was hoping that someone would save me the trouble of
finding actual topics, plus what looks dull and pointless to me may well be the best discussion
ever to someone else.










roddy -

Now archiving Newsletters here. Anyone who doesn't want to sign up for the newsletter mailing list
but wants to keep an eye on it can use the forums subscription system for the topic (see under
Thread Tools menu).










simonlaing -

How about the forming of different level online study groups?

Or other organizing tools?

Anyone play chinese chess? What about Luzhan qi (Chinese stratego)? I like the idea of the book
discussion group but are there other ways to join with others and do online activities that use
Chinese?

I am brainstorming.

have fun,
Simon










roddy -

How about starting your own topic for random ideas










roddy -

After a few months of outsourcing, I'm back to writing the newsletters myself for the time being
at least. Now would be a good time for any comments on the content / style / frequency / value of
the said electronic bulletin.










muyongshi -

I think twice a month is more than enough....the rest is fine in my opinion.










roddy -

Yeah, I think once every two weeks is about right, will keep it at that for the time being I think.












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Chinese Class - 帖 & 贴 -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
帖 & 贴
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Koneko -

Further to my discussion with bomaci here.

I can now conclude that 帖 & 贴 are actually 同声异体字 after consulting my dictionary.



Quote:


Originally Posted by 现代汉语大词典

帖(tie1) 同贴(tie3)


However, I still strongly feel that 帖子 should be pronunced as "tie1zi3" not "tie3zi3"
Change of two third tones, remember?

K.



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againstwind -



Quote:

However, I still strongly feel that 帖子 should be pronunced as "tie1zi3" not "tie3zi3"

I'm afraid that 帖子 should be pronunced as tie3zi5.

According to the 现代汉语词典
帖 tie1
(1)服从；顺从：服服帖帖
（2）妥当；稳当：妥帖

帖 tie3
（1）邀请客人的通知： 请贴
（2）旧时写着生辰八字等的纸片：换帖
（3）写着字的纸片：字帖儿（便条）
（4）量词，配合汤药使用：一帖药

帖 tie4
学习书法或绘画时临摹用的样本：碑帖、习字帖、画帖












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Learn Chinese online - Regret - Page 2 -

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Regret
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Page 2 of 2 < 1 2






Quest -



Quote:

Quote:
掉垃圾

Whoops, seems like some sort of Cantonese finally infiltrated my brain.

In Cantonese, if the trash is in a bin or a bucket, use 倒. If in bags or in pieces, use 掉.



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Koneko -

I couldn't help but wonder if there's a word in Cantonese for "emptying a bin with a bag of
rubbish in it"...

K.










Quest -



Quote:

I couldn't help but wonder if there's a word in Cantonese for "emptying a bin with a bag of
rubbish in it"...

The action to empty a bin is 倒, and to throw away something from your hand is 丢/掉。












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Chinese language - Online Tefl/tesol -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Teaching English in
China
Online Tefl/tesol
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s6mcmanus -

Hey All:

I was wondering what is the best place to get a TEFL/TESOL degree. Are some places more respected
than others? Is it acceptable to get one online, w/o attending any classes? I plan on teaching
English in China (somehow) and I think this would help me, since I have teaching experience but no
degree.

Thanks!!

Shane Mc Manus



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liuzhou -

What do you mean by a "TEFL/TESOL degree" ?

You can't do a 4-6 week certificate course and find yourself with a 'degree'. Online or off.










s6mcmanus -

Ok. I think I understand now. So the online ones are usually/only certifications? Even so, are
these certificates worth getting? Is one place better to get them than another? Thanks for the
help.










newbie2006 -

Hi

I am thinking of doing an online Tefl Tesol course.

Are they bona fide recognised by schools and if so, does anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks for all your help

n










roddy -

Merging two near-enough identical topics.

For China, a TEFL course is not generally necessary, but it will open up the better jobs and make
you stand out from other candidates. However, there's no widely recognized online TEFL course, and
I'm dubious about the value of a course that doesn't put you in front of real live students. The
only widely recognized TEFL certificate I'm aware of is the CELTA and that's usually four weeks
full time training and is therefore not cheap.

Perhaps someone who's currently teaching English here (or has done so more recently than me) can
comment, but for my money you should either invest in a CELTA if you are planning to teach for
more than a year or two, otherwise don't bother.










s6mcmanus -

Thanks Roddy, always a help!










cellofallon -

A TEFL can be pretty expensive, then accommodation on top if you have to go to a city you don't
live in. There are some year part time ones but that involved being free to do your teaching
practice at times. If you really want to do it, then it's best getting a school to subside it for
you. I think English First subsidise their TEFL course if you agree to go teach for them. This may
be the best option if you are committed to going and don't want to pay too much up front for your
training.

Tracey










kdavid -

Because many places in China are so desperate for white faces, big eyes and high noses, it is
possible for you to get a job without a BA and TEFL.

HOWEVER, not having a TEFL or BA will lessen the chances that you'll get accepted by a legit
school that will honor their contract, or that you'll get to actually choose where you want to go.
Generally, those with TEFLs / BA's can say "I want to work for this school", send their resume,
transcript / degree copies, and then get the job (after the interview, of course.

Though TEFL's are expensive, I think it's a good idea to look into getting one as it opens more
doors as well as prepares you for the classroom. I would not recommend an online TEFL. I think
that's a waste of time and offers no real "training".

Has anyone here done a TEFL / TESOL course in China? If so, where did you do yours, and what do
you think about the experience?

I did my TESOL in Barcelona, so I'm useless for recommending Mainland courses.










optical -

I've been on the job hunt for a while and am finding a lot of jobs that say TESOL is acceptable.

In this thread (dating back to feb 07) no one ever specifically cited any online TESOL courses
that were reputable. Is this still the case now?










nomad -

TEFL (teaching English as a foreign language)- this is when you teach English in China
TESL (teaching English as second language)- this is when you teach English in the USA
TESOL (teaching English to speakers of other languages)-

A good program regardless of name (CELTA, Trinity, TEFL...) should teach a balance between theory
and practice in terms of pedagogy/ methodology, include minimum of 100 instructional hours plus a
practicum teaching component.

If you just want to teach in China, then it doesn't matter what type of certificate you get
(on-line, on-campus, 2 weeks...).

If you're interested in finding out more about TESL/TEFL/TESOL, check out IATEFL (UK) or TESOL
(USA), these are 2 of the biggest organizations that provide information on teaching English.












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Learn Chinese online - I would like some help with Mainland Chinese Mandarin slang-please help me out. -

> Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary
I would like some help with Mainland Chinese Mandarin slang-please help me out.
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Mavericker -

Hello. I am interested in and am doing research on Mainland Mandarin Chinese slang-Mandarin
Chinese youth, college and street slang.-Can someone please help me out?

I know "nan ren Puo" is a Mandarin slang term for "tomboy". What are Mandarin Chinese slang
synonyms for "tomboy" besides "nan ren puo"?
What is Mandarin slangs for "delinquent girl"?

What are Mandarin slangs that mena "tough female"?
Please let me know, and please list as many translations as possible. Thank you.



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elina -

假小子










yunxiao333 -

We say jia xiao zi(假小子)when this kind of girl was very small,usually they are children,they
are so-called"fake boy".
If you say Nan ren puo（男人婆）,It probably refer to a woman.










Mavericker -

Thank you for responding. Are there any other Mandarin slangs for "Tomboy" that refer to girls?
Please let me know. Thank you.










Mavericker -

I already know about Nan ren puo and jia xiao zi(假小子)-are there any other slangs in Mandarin
for "tomboy"?










jukebox -

You could try using "李宇春" as for tomboy. Sometimes it may insult or offend some people
though.










Mavericker -

Hello jukebox-why would the term you posted be offensive?










gato -

Li Yuchun (李宇春) is the winner of the first Supergirl singing contest. She's widely thought
of as being androgynous.

Here's a photo for your inspection:
http://www.gg88.net/A001/F001W/G0369/










Mavericker -

I went else to ask what is Mandarin slang for "delinquent girl", and these were the terms I was
given:

Female hooligan泼妇 (po fu)
bad(immoral) girl 骚货(sao hou) 骚B (sao bi) 贱货(jian hou)贱B(jian bi)

sao1 B jian4

A female juvenile delinquent--女少年犯(i doubt its a slang) . i know they called 太妹 in HK
movie.
A female punk -- 朋克妞

Does anyone here know any other terms? Please let me know. Thank you.










Mavericker -

Is there anyone else here who can please help me out?

What do they call "Delinquent girls" in Chinese MAndarin slang, besides the ones I posted?












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Chinese Studies - Forum members' post counts -

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Forum members' post counts
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onebir -

In this thread , the OP (bunburryist) has posted twice. But his/her number of posts is just 1.
Wierd huh?



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roddy -

Yeah, there's a minor bug where posts from new members don't always register, so post counts are
sometimes off by one or two. There's a back-end script I can run which should fix it, but it also
looks like it might break lots of other stuff so I just leave it.










onebir -

ok - just wasn't sure if you knew about it...












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Chinese Online Class - Character to words ratio -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Character to words ratio
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kdavid -

Seeing how a number of characters seem to be used a number of times in different, and not
necessarily related, words, how many actual characters do you think would be needed to write, say,
the 4,000 most common words used in daily life. And then some, what about 10,000 words?



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roddy -

If you're willing to take the HSK vocab lists as an acceptable take on 'most common words'. you
can come up with this fairly easily:

Level 1: 1033 words, 798 characters
Level 2: 2018 words, 808 characters
Level 3: 2202 words, 598 characters
Level 4: 3569 words, 670 characters

So, rounding off to friendly numbers
Your first 1000 words need 800 characters
Your first 3000 words need 1500 characters
Your first 5000 words need 2100 characters
Your first 8800 words need 2800 characters

The main character learning 'push' would therefore be at the start, assuming of course you are
learning to write. At Level 1 you have to learn 800 characters and you get only 1000 words in
return. But by Level Four you get over three times as many words for less additional characters -
although tragically you still have to actually learn the words, you can't just learn the
characters and wait for them to pop into your head.










kdavid -

That's exactly what I was looking for. Those numbers look like Christmas morning. Now I don't feel
so hopeless. Thanks, Roddy!










Shadowdh -

Yep me too.. thanks Roddy,

this is quite useful info.. I know what you mean about the words though... why is it that when two
characters are combined they can come to mean something completely different to what you
thought... sigh...










HashiriKata -



Quote:

why is it that when two characters are combined they can come to mean something completely
different to what you thought... sigh...

There're 2 possible answers to this:

1. To keep the number of characters down, out of pity for us learners.
2. To frustrate foreigners who try to master the language.












mamba9 -

sounds exactly like chemistry to me. Remove an oxygen and all of a sudden it turns to poison lol.










roddy -

This is a related tool - you can plug in the characters you already know / are learning / dream
vaguely of one day being somewhat familiar with, and it will output the words that those
characters will allow you to write. It can be kind of encouraging to see sometimes how very simple
characters you might learn early on in a writing course - say 中,立,天,文 - can combine to
produce less common bits of vocab like 中立 and 天文.

I'd imagine there's something out there that works in reverse - plug in the vocab you already know
and get a list of the characters you'll need to learn how to write - but I don't know specifically
where.










Hero Doug -

Yeah I'll second that, it is a very promising list. 3000 characters for 10 000 words is a really
nice ratio.










roddy -

Probably also worth noting that as the words are restricted to those on the HSK lists, you'd also
find that those characters give you 'extra' words。 笔记本, for example, isn't on the lists,
but you'd be able to write it with characters you'd learn at first level.










Koneko -



Quote:


Originally Posted by Shadowdh

why is it that when two characters are combined they can come to mean something completely
different to what you thought


I cannot really answer your question here but I think you can discover more through 语素.
语素 is like a "proper" Chinese intermediate grammar once you have mastered most Chinese basic
grammar.

A good knowledge of 语素 will enable you to tell which characters can be combined and used as a
pair, 3-character-word, etc. You will also gain a deeper understanding of the uniqueness of
Chinese characters.

K.












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Learn Chinese - 2 questions - translation and chinese progress relation -

> Learning Chinese > Resources and General Study Issues
2 questions - translation and chinese progress relation
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赫杰 -

1) If you HAD to choose one, what do you feel is overall better for your Chinese, translating from
English to Chinese or translating from Chinese to English? Why?

2) Thought of another stupid question I wanted to ask everybody: imagine two people (Person A and
Person B) learning Chinese; both have the same learning capacity for languages, same age, same
intense effort, same everything (well accept for names ha-ha), just a different approach to
learning Chinese.

Person A – Studies Chinese everyday for three hours a day for two years, 1 hour in a
standardized comprehensive Chinese class, 2 hours studying a standardized comprehensive text book
and doing exercises (during this time he is advancing through different Chinese courses and is
indeed using different textbooks). On the days there are no classes, studies the text book for 3
hours (strict teacher ha-ha)

Person B – Translates between the two languages everyday for three hours for two years, starting
off translating like Chinese/English kid stories/programs and then after one year, moves up to
other things like TV Dramas and stuff like that, during this time has to take the time to learn
the 部首 system to look up the characters he does not recognize (not to mention pinyin). He
spends 1.5 hours a day translating from English to Chinese and 1.5 hours a day the other way.

For the heck of it, let’s say after year of study for each student, they spend one hour a week
doing their best to talk the same native Chinese person.

After two years, who in your opinion would have the better Chinese? Why? And who would have the
overall better translating ability? Why?

Many thanks
HJ



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gougou -



Quote:

1) If you HAD to choose one, what do you feel is overall better for your Chinese, translating from
English to Chinese or translating from Chinese to English? Why?

Depends on your level of Chinese. When you're still at a rather basic level, you'll be better off
translating from Chinese to English, as you will be working with grammatically correct texts. The
other way would be dangerous, you might end up learning your own mistakes. Once you have reached a
level where you can assume that most of what you say is correct, you might want to consider the
other way, too, to put what you learned into use. It does depend on learning styles, too; some
people prefer passive learning (i.e., understanding Chinese texts), others need to learn actively
(i.e., use everything they learned, and maybe a bit more than that). Oh, and look how I still
managed not to choose...



Quote:

After two years, who in your opinion would have the better Chinese? Why? And who would have the
overall better translating ability? Why?

Person A will be advancing much faster in the beginning, it just is much more efficient to be told
how a grammatical construct like complements works then having to extrapolate those rules by
looking at many, many samples. I think it is quite possible that this would save him so much time
that even in terms of translating ability, he is still ahead of person B.










Koneko -

This can be very subjective but I think it's easier to translate English to Chinese than the other
way round. Since there are quite a lot of golden sayings in Chinese, which are pretty hard to
explain in English.

X X X

I personally think that Person B will progress quicker than Person A because his way of learning
is more interactive. Person A might know a lot of theories but he might not be able to express
better than Person B. In term of writing, Person A might do better than Person B... Well, the
possibilities are endless, I am not very good at judging. Just based on some general assumptions,
I think Person B will be better than Person A in overall.

K.










wushijiao -

Like Koneko says, it depends on a lot of factors? Are A's teachers and textbooks good? Does B know
what s/he is doing?

I think neither system is ideal, but A would probably learn faster. I think if you had, say, 10
people doing A's system and 10 doing B's, you might find that, at the end, the best results would
belong to one or two B students, but the A's would do better overall.

The fact is, most people don't know how to learn on thier own. Also, good textbooks are written by
experts who have studied these issues for decades and can feed the most stuff into the minds of
newbies as quick as possible, in theory. Textbooks (in theory) teach the most important stuff, the
foundation, right away, which would enable A to get better quickly.

Of course a good student of the B method would have a better natural use of the language and would
pick up grammar naturally, but that is assuming that he or she could cope.












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Speak Chinese - Advanced HSK - speaking topics -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Advanced HSK - speaking topics
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yonitabonita -

Hi folks,

I'm looking for new ways flog myself this year. I'm thinking that using the HSK oral exam as a way
to structure my kouyu lessons would be a nice way to begin. But where do I find a good range of
sample questions?

I already know about the BLCU's HSK site - though it's only of limited use since I only get a
sample size of one. Can anyone help?

thanks folks,

Yonita



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yonitabonita -

Gosh, this dismal?

Does anyone know how to go about preparing for the HSK oral exam?

Y










wushijiao -



Quote:

Does anyone know how to go about preparing for the HSK oral exam?

Well, I suppose I could give a little advice, seeing how I got a B in that section last time.

Do you have any HSK Advanced practice tests? If so, they usually have topics you can use.

As you probably know, the test really consists of two sections. In the first you read out a
passage. (I suppose this is so that the graders have at least one section in which they can
compare all the students equally). In that section, my guess is that you need to pay attention to
three things A) tones B) characters that can be pronounced in multiple ways (ie 重新，重要)
and C) not reading like a robot. I’m not sure what the best way to practice for this is. Maybe
reading out rather poetic or touchy-feely passages to a tutor or something.

The second part consists of two questions. The questions, at least in my view, don’t see to be
too hard, nor do they require very specific answers. It’s a bit like giving a mini-speech, in
which you have ten minutes to prepare. How to prepare for this? I don’t know. I often read the
papers in Chinese and English and then discuss and debate about issues with my wife, who usually
challenges and pushes my opinions. I suppose if you have a lot of experience doing something like
that, especially talking about a wide array of issues, you will be set.

Two books that can help:

HSK（高等） 考前强化－口试

21天征服HSK（高等）口试

Both books are worth getting, but I would especially recommend 21天征服HSK（高等）口试.
The graphic design is good. It covers a lot of topics. It includes a lot of useful vocab and
grammatical patterns that will make you sound smart. I think that would be a pretty good book to
help you focus if you are prepping for the HSK with a friend, or if you just want to improve your
speaking in general, and it will help you get away from referring to everything in terms of either
好 or不好 .

Other than that, I don’t know. Maybe if heifeng sees this post, she can also help you out.










wushijiao -

Oh, you can also buy a 多音字 small dictionary, usually in the refrence section of a bookstore.
I have a small little one that I bought for 10 RMB in Shanghai called 普通话正音掌中宝.
Just a small little book to guide you through the characters the have multiple tones/or different
pronunciations, or both. Both times I've taken the HSK Gao, I've noticed that they've slipped that
in there. The HSK（高等） 考前强化－口试 also has a section to help you prepare for
that (常用多音字）。

(The edit function seemed to be really slow, so thus this second post).










yonitabonita -

Wushijiao,

Thanks a million for a useful post. I'll have a look at the books you've recommended. With any
luck they'll steer me onto the right track.

Y










roddy -



Quote:

But where do I find a good range of sample questions?

A few here. I just scanned through another set of HSK exams I have, and it really is very much . .
.
1) Please answer an innocuous question of the type a taxi driver might ask about you, your home
town, your country's festivals and traditions, or your Chinese study.
2) Please answer a slightly more challenging question a taxi driver might ask about various social
issues.

Draw up a list of topics covered in your textbooks and I don't think you'll go wrong.


Quote:

Both books are worth getting, but I would especially recommend 21天征服HSK（高等）口试.

Glanced at that today and considered getting it, but didn't. Will go back and buy it first thing
tomorrow morning.

Have turned off the fancy inline editing thing, it just wasn't working . ..










wushijiao -

Hehe...I think Roddy has it right. Getting caught in horrible Beijing traffic with a talkative
cabbie might be better, cheaper, and more productive than a private tutor too.

In some ways, I think the productive parts of the HSK (speaking, writing) are much, much less
challenging than the listening, reading, and 综合. It crazy that you will go from reading a
long, complex critique of the characters in 三国演义 at breakneck pace, and then later are
asked about your opinions on festivals, or studying abroad in the speaking.

I have a picture in my mind of some guy in Beijing, listening to those tapes for eight hours in a
row, trying not to fall asleep or kill himself out of boredom. So, I think it's important to say
some interesting things that will hopefully set you apart from the crowd.










lau -

speaking is the only part of HSK i did not prepare for, and the only one i got A (81 points, so, a
very low A) wushijiao is absolutelly correct - speaking is relatively easy. the questions i had
was why i like/dislike advertisements and do i often call home to talk to my mummy and why. and
thats it!

whats difficult in speaking part is the dreadful part where you have to read that damn passage. i
can't read. i have no idea how to pronounce all those difficult characters. but, i guess, if you
manage to sound more or less brave, and read more or less fluently not caring about the mistakes
you make, well, if even i managed to do that, then i guess everyone can. especially all those
people on this forum that have read books in chinese. the big thick non-textbook books. i admire
you, people!

what i'd suggest practising is the timing. i was lucky. the tape stopped at one of those moments
when i was out of breath and desperately looking for some new aspect to tell them about, so i
guess that made an impression of good timing

though we had ten minutes to prepare, i spend that time guessing pinyin for hanzi in passage, and
only managed to write down a few things to start speaking about. but you make it up as you go.










赫杰 -

Hi there!

Though I have not taken the HSK Advanced, most of my studies now center around getting my 口语
better and cleaning up the rest of my chinese, so I would still like to make some suggestions. I
don't know if you are in China or not, but if you don't have much opportunities to practice with
chinese peeps, I recommend (if you are not already doing this that is) to go ahead and start
thinking about these topics in chinese no matter what your doing (like doing daily things or even
shooting the bull with peeps) and when you got the opportunity to simply speak out loud these
thoughts and say them to yourself, that is 自言自语. This has helped me personally a lot, I
have found the more in depth and analytical I get, the longer I can speak about a topic, and the
more correct my tones and grammar are, then the more expressive I can be when talking to peeps,
even if due to nervousness or whatever I make mistakes, I have found a definite connection with
the better I can do this, then the more pleased I am with my sessions of speaking with peeps.

I also 背 lots of 成语 and 常见词组，which I probably should do more of...but this has
helped out a lot as well.

Edit: O right, I also mimic lots of news reports and tv dramas, this has seemed to help a lot as
well...

Just my three cents on the matter

Good luck!
HJ










gougou -



Quote:

Edit: O right, I also mimic lots of news reports

Whenever I do that, I find myself at the ridicule of my Chinese friends... They insist I should
learn more 口语。












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Learning Mandarin - Cantonese vs Mandarin in Hong Kong? - Page 3 -

> Learning Chinese > Non-Mandarin Chinese
Cantonese vs Mandarin in Hong Kong?
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Young Sing -

Cantonese is a way of life in HK. 100years down the road, Cantonese still prevail. However, I have
to agree that the level of spoken Mandarin has improved over the years since the early 90s.



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Quest -



Quote:

The idea that "Mandarin is a power language" is not really embraced in Hong Kong.

The fact is, Mandarin is not a power language even in the mainland. It's just being forced on
dialect speakers, and helped by the massive migrants who usually speak another dialect at home,
but out of necessity have to speak mandarin in their adopted towns and cities... Most people would
switch to their own dialects whenever possible.

I think some Westerners have adopted/acquired the Beijing centric view, because they take
residence there and watch Beijing centric entertainment. But outside of the Beijing area, few
Chinese people think of the language or the place much, and by no means would they associate any
chicness with Beijing, the opposite is closer to reality.










Young Sing -

put it that way... when 2 chinese meets, the common language is Mandarin.... just like when two
Caucasain meets (one from US and one from Europe).. the common language is English.










Quest -

Or put it this way, Mandarin is a tool not a language of choice.










geraldc -

Written Cantonese is making more and more of an appearance, you won't see it in subtitles of TV
programs (other than the Cable channels, BTW Iron Chef with Cantonese subtitles is a laugh). A
large number of the adverts that now appear on the MTR feature written Cantonese, including the
safety ads for things like holding onto the escalators. Admittedly these adverts are nearly always
humourous, but it's certainly a sign that Cantonese isn't on the way out.










sjcma -



Quote:

On a related note, what do people in HK mean when they say 'Chinese'? When browsing job
classifieds, I was under the impression that it would refer to Mandarin - until I stumbled across
a few that were asking for Chinese AND Mandarin...

The term Chinese or 中文 means different things to different people. Those from Hong Kong often
use it to mean spoken Cantonese and written Chinese. Those from the mainland or Taiwan use it to
mean spoken Mandarin. It was quite interesting to hear some HKers commenting on how a Mandarin
speaker does not know 中文, and then hearing the same Mandarin speaker commenting on how the
aforementioned HKers do not know 中文. I guess everyone is dumb and illiterate!

Things become even more ridiculous when those comments are translated into English. I've heard
many-a-times HKers saying, in English, that so-and-so (from Taiwan or Mainland) do not know how to
speak Chinese. The native English speaker then presents a puzzled look and asks "He doesn't speak
Chinese? But isn't he from China?"

And don't get me started on why Catholics aren't Christians...










atitarev -



Quote:

Or put it this way, Mandarin is a tool not a language of choice.

I think it must be considered an important tool to master, at least in China, am I wrong? And is
Hong Kong - China?










wushijiao -



Quote:

I think it must be considered an important tool to master, at least in China, am I wrong?

I think it is important to master in China, but not that difficult. Since TV and radio are almost
solely in Putonghua and the whole education system is in Putonghua, most young people now speak it
effortlessly (even people from dialect areas).

However, Jive Turkey mentioned that the lingua franca in HK is Cantonese, or 中文 if you will. I
also wonder if English can be a lingua franca for the business community, of sorts. I know that
when I went to HK this summer, my wife did a lot of shopping, finding that the people working in
shops had pretty good English, so they just spoke in English. Of course, the % of Mainlanders who
can speak English is low, but the type who might fly down to HK for business (people fairly high
up in Chinese and foreign companies) might be able to converse in basic English.



Quote:

I think some Westerners have adopted/acquired the Beijing centric view, because they take
residence there and watch Beijing centric entertainment.

Hehe...that was certainly me at one point.



Quote:

But outside of the Beijing area, few Chinese people think of the language or the place much, and
by no means would they associate any chicness with Beijing, the opposite is closer to reality

I think for really cool, trendy people in Shanghai, Shanghaiese is percieved as more fashionable
than Putonghua. At least that's the impression that I get.










Luobot -

The real reason for speaking Cantonese in Hong Kong, even poorly, is because they'll treat you
better if you do. Heck, they'll treat you better if you just speak English, even if they don't
understand you (and most educated HK'ers will). I discovered in HK that no one understood my poor
Mandarin (well, even my tape recorder doesn't seem to understand my Mandarin), but plenty of
HK'ers are studying it themselves. They see the writing on The Wall. I'd like to say, when in
Rome, study Latin (it really is such a beautiful language), but nowadays even the Romans are
studying Putonghua.

So what's your decision ???










atitarev -

Wushijiao, do you reckon English will become the lingua franca between China and Hong Kong? Seeing
that parents in Hong Kong are more eager for their kids to learn English than Putonghua (see my
link), then it is likely to happen. I am not so sure it comes effortlessly for HKers, as they are
much less exposed to spoken Mandarin and to written simplified characters (mainlanders are better
at reading traditional than HKers are at reading simplified).












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Learn Mandarin online - Oldest Western Restaurant in China - Page 2 -

> Chinese Culture > Food
Oldest Western Restaurant in China
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Ian_Lee -



Quote:

The restaurant has been operating at the same location with the same name in Guangzhou. The
founder's family started a chain with the same name in Hong Kong and continue to operate today.

The founder's family didn't start the chain AFTER their restaurant in Guangzhou was forced to turn
over to the government in early '50s. In fact, the "Tai Ping Koon" restaurants in HK opened in
1930s when the owner family expanded their business outside of Guangzhou.

From 1930s to early 1950s, Tai Ping Koon existed in both Guangzhou and HK under the same
ownership. (Of course the business during the Japanese occupation period must be terrible in both
places.)

But after early 1950s, only the restaurant chain in HK has been under the same ownership with the
same management.

Anyway, I will try the Tai Ping Koon in Guangzhou to see if their foods are identical with those
in HK.



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Chinese Studies - best Korean songs - Page 2 -

> Extras > Other cultures and language
best Korean songs
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skitzo -

Seo Taiji is my favorite Korean artist.

"Heffy End" live in Russia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYpgG45ArOU

"F.M. Business" music video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBTk_1EEWKs
Live version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVz1VtJv9to

"Livewire" video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEFdA5YJIsc

Great artist.



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bhchao -

Love this guy's soothing vocals: Sung Si Kyung - 거리에서 (On the Street)

It has a gentle tone and is also sung in a 討人喜歡 demeanor (depending on how you look at it).

The song was the fourth biggest hit of 2006.










bhchao -

Part II of Partner for Life: http://youtube.com/watch?v=TWPzWN5AY...elated&search=

The video is very dramatic. And yes, there is a sad ending. But this is what makes Part II so good
in my opinion.

It comes with Chinese subtitles. The kidnapper who kidnapped the girl in Part I develops feelings
for her, while she develops Stockholm Syndrome. The rest is history.

The public prosecutor who gets beaten in Part I reappears in Part II. Why he ordered the fateful
decision in Part II has been open to debate among the video's viewers.










rose~ -

No-one mentioned the hottest man alive...Rain.

I like "But I love you".










trien27 -

1) You are posting in the wrong forum. You're looking for something in Korean, this is
http://www. ? hello? speak English?
2) Search for a korean forum online.










bhchao -

hmm....Other cultures and languages - Korean songs.



Quote:

1) You are posting in the wrong forum. You're looking for something in Korean, this is
http://www. ? hello? speak English?
2) Search for a korean forum online

Translation: I have nothing to contribute to this thread. Therefore I'm raving mad!










lpascoe -

I really like a bunch of songs from the 豪傑春香 OST but I can't remember what they are
called. Not very helpful of me. And a couple of the songs from 悲傷戀歌 but my favourite song
doesn't seem to be on the OST. Very annoying.










rherschbach -

This is really ancient, I know, but I really like a singer named Lee So-Ra. A friend of mine gave
me her albums several years ago. Her style is closer to jazz than pop.

I wonder if she's still around and/or recording material?










bhchao -



Quote:

And a couple of the songs from 悲傷戀歌 but my favourite song doesn't seem to be on the OST.
Very annoying.

hi lpascoe (longtime no see), was it this song?: Sal Da Ga










kkoma -

First ever song I heard & listened to was 오빠 by 왁스












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Chinese Character - Is this school asking too much. Can't go to any competition for a year after I leave - Page 2 -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Teaching English in
China
Is this school asking too much. Can't go to any competition for a year after I leave
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wushijiao -

I agree with Kudra- I just can't imagine that they would ever enforce that clause. Would they
really sue you if you worked for another school? How would you define "direct competitor(s)"
anyway?

Has anyone ever heard of this type of clause being put into effect?



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Hero Doug -



Quote:


Originally Posted by roddy

but how do you decide on what is a 'direct competitor' or a 'similar teaching style'?


The U.S. patent office show's that's it's all in the wording. All teaching styles are the same,
one teacher, one to many students, the teacher teaches, the students learn, it's quite a broad
description.



Quote:


Originally Posted by tianma

I'd love to sign such a contract. According to the law, they have to compensate you after you
leave the company for not being able to work for a competitor. The compensation is normally being
paid every month and is 1/3 of your former salary.


Thanks for the links, I'll be sure to read them, nice to have a bit of an ace up my sleeve when
negotiating. I read article 4 of the sample contract you posted and it's perfect. It's helped me
reach a solution which I'll post when finished responding.



Quote:


Originally Posted by kudra

obviously they have some super-duper top secret teaching method, that they don't want you to
steal. I can't believe it would be possible or worth their time to enforce it.


lol, if by super-duper you mean nothing special, then you're 100% right. And I'm not sure they'd
be able to enforce it either, once I leave I leave, that's all there is to it.

The thing is though I know all the major schools in the area send their workers to each other's
schools to keep tab's on prices and what-not, so it's likely that they may casually bump into me
when doing this. It happened to my girlfriend actually, from people from a couple of schools she
worked at.



Quote:


Originally Posted by Jockster

I've seen non-competition clauses like this before. What I think is fundamentally wrong is that
when someone is educated for a certain job then that is his bread and butter and therefore it is
unreasonable to demand this from him/her.


Well said, I like the wording as well. It would legally force me to go to another city if I left
that job, and the legal system is getting to a point where it just might be enforceable.



Quote:


Originally Posted by zhwj

More likely, after working at this school for a bit, you get hired away by one of the co-founders
who splits off from the school to found his own place, taking many of the teachers with him. In
this case, the presence of the clause on teachers' contracts acts as a disincentive to the current
partners to break off, since they won't be able to take teachers with them.


Actually quite a funny story here. The school I'm considering (a) stole everything from another
school (c), as did another school (b). The funny thing is that the school (c) the other two
schools stole everything from (a+b) stole everything from another school themselves.

To the solution

I think I'll decide to leave it in the contract. I'll let them have their sense of security, but
it should come at a price.

I'll take a (well many) clause from the article tianma posted.



Quote:

4. Payment of compensation fee


4.1 Within, but not exceeding one month after Party B’s Separation from Party A, Party A shall
decide whether it requests Party B to undertake the Non-competition Obligation as well as the
period of non-competition. If Party A decides to require Party B to undertake the Non-competition
Obligation, it shall pay the non-competition compensation fee according to Article 4.2 of this
agreement.

4.2 The non-competition compensation fee shall be 50% of Party B’s annual salary (if the local
government stipulates a minimum more than this amount, such minimum shall prevail). The
non-competition period to which such compensation fee is applicable shall be 12 months, commencing
on the date of Party B’s Separation from Party A.

4.3 The non-competition compensation fee shall be paid up in full in one lump sum within, but not
exceeding one month after the formal Separation of Party B, and shall be collected by Party B at
Party A’s corporate address (or paid by Party A to Party B via bank or post office). If Party B
refuses to receive the payment, Party A may submit the payment of the compensation fee to the
relevant authority for deposit according to law. The time when such submission is completed shall
be deemed to be the date of payment of the compensation fee.

4.5 If Party A fails to pay the non-competition compensation fee to Party B within one month after
Party B’s Separation, Party A shall be deemed to have released Party B from the Non-competition
Obligation (which means that Party B may not be subject to the obligations set forth in and only
in Articles 3.3 and 3.4). Upon such time, Party B shall not claim against Party A for payment of
the non-competition compensation fee in any manner (including but not limited to arbitration or
litigation).

That should cover their worries and mine. In a way I hope they would enact it, because I'd just
hop on over to a university with 6 months pay and start another job.

I'll send my request to them and post back with their response.










imron -

For those interested, a draft copy of the law can be found online here. The relevant part is
article 16.










tianma -

looks good :-)

I would change article 4.2 slightly though:



Quote:

4.2 The non-competition compensation fee shall be 50% of Party B’s annual salary (if the local
government stipulates a minimum more than this amount, such minimum shall prevail). The
non-competition period to which such compensation fee is applicable shall be 12 months, commencing
on the date of Party B’s Separation from Party A.

When the new labor law is being established, the minimum is likely to be a full annual salary.
Therefore I'd change "if the local government stipulates ..." to "if the local or state government
stipulates ..." and you should be fine ;)










tianma -

thanks imron ...

If I understood those articles correctly, it means that the non-competition clause is limited to a
certain region and can be valid for a maximum of 2 years. And the compensation is a normal annual
salary - the last one the employee received at his/her former firm.

It would be nice to see the current legislation since this is just the draft.










imron -

I've found what appears to be copies of the relevant current legislation here (劳动法) and here
(合同法). They're dated 1994/7/5 and 1999/3/15 respectively, and came into effect on 1995/1/1
and 1999/10/1. I've only skimmed them briefly, but they don't seem to mention non-compete
agreements (竞业限制约定) unless they're using a different term from what's used in the
current draft.

Also, with the current draft, the other thing to bear in mind, is that if you break the
non-compete, then you can up fined up to 3 times the amount paid to you in non-compete
compensation, so if you're worried about this clause if/when you do go and work somewhere else,
you might want to get it in writing that your new workplace isn't in direct competition etc.

Also of interest is that the wording of the new law seems to limit it to people who have knowledge
of the business' trade-secrets, so perhaps it's unlikely to apply in a case where there are no
trade secrets?










Hero Doug -

Getting a written statement is also a good idea, a university should be safe since it's in no way
in direct or indirect competition with a private school, but always best to cover your bases.










mr.stinky -

zhwj: "the same innovative methods"

oh, c'mon, this is china fer chrissakes!! innovative??? bwahahahahah!!!!

they prolly just needed a contract, pulled something off the internet, and replaced
something like engineering with teaching.










zhwj -



Quote:


Originally Posted by mr.stinky

zhwj: "the same innovative methods"

oh, c'mon, this is china fer chrissakes!! innovative??? bwahahahahah!!!!


Naturally, "innovative" is relative, but the English training industry is driven in large part by
trends - teachers get trained in this year's popular methods, costing the school a pretty penny,
but allowing them to advertise that their teachers are cutting-edge (to a degree, of course). If
they then jump ship it's all wasted investment for the first school, and an unearned windfall for
the second.

And that's not even getting into the foreigners who land on these shores, get disgusted with the
pedagogical conditions, and launch their own programs in concert with some local entrepreneur.
I've known several of these folks, each of whom believes he is the savior of English education in
China, and who jealously guards his teaching methods. Naturally, people try to poach from them if
they're in any way successful.

Of course, you might be right about where the contract came from....










Hero Doug -

I like your theory about where the contract came from mr.stinky, highly possible.

Also, the long awaited results. Their taking the clause out, guess that's a better option then
adding the appendix I proposed above.

And I agree about innovation, everyone copies everything from everyone else here. I'll never buy
an Ineovo (I think that's the spelling) because of their blatant rip-off's of the Motorola Razor.
It's just disgusting.












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HSK Exam - Chinese royalty today - Page 2 -

> Chinese Culture > Chinese History
Chinese royalty today
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trien27 -

I also read somewhere that the descendants of Ching royalty had to use 4 different Chinese
characters for the surname Aisin AKA Aisin-Gioro, so that they won't be all killed off by enemies.
Some people still use Aisin-Gioro.

Also, I read in a Chinese article that the 32nd generation after emperor Qianlong is an actress in
China using Aisin-Gioro as the surname. Forgot the first character of her given name, but the last
character is xing, meaning "star" as in "Twinkle, Twinkle little star..."



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trien27 -

The princess who got her arm cut off wasn't a Han dynasty(206BC - AD23) princess, but rather a
Ming dynasty princess, her father was the last emperor Song-jing of the Ming dynasty(1368-1644),
meaning he died before the Ching/Manchurians came into power in 1644. Emperor Song-jing knowing
that he's losing power, poisoned his whole family, so that all the women won't have to suffer
being raped after his death. He committed suicide under a tree. But the one that got away was
Princess Chang-ping(meaning "forever peaceful"), nicknamed the "Miraculous Single-Armed Nun" by
the people, because she only had only one arm after the Emperor chopped it off using a sword. Some
say she ran off to become a nun. Some say she didn't become a nun, but rather a commoner.

Emperor Song-jing's given name is Zhu Youjian.
Zhu (surname) = Cinnabar.










Peng -

Are you talking about Chinese Princess Aixinjueluo Beiyi (愛新覺羅貝怡), the model in Hong
Kong? She's not Chinese/Qing/Manchu princess, she's actually a Japanese model. Her real name is
Nakagoshi Noriko (中越典子).

It's kinda hilarious seeing Chinese nationalists praised the fake Chinese princess and compared
her to the Japanese ex-princess Sayako Kuroda, saying Kuroda is ugly and Beiyi is hottie!










royba -

Pu Yi only had one brother, Pu Jie. He was one year younger than Pu Yi, the last Emperor of China.

Pu Jie died on Monday, February 28, 1994, in Beijing. He was 87.

The official New China News Agency (Xinhua), announcing the death in a two-paragraph report, said
only that he had succumbed to illness. An official at the Chinese People's Political Consultative
Conference, an advisory group, said the main cause was prostate cancer.


_______________________________________________________
See my latest book, "10,000 Chinese Numbers." published by TuDragons Press, and available from
www.lulu.com










cdn_in_bj -



Quote:

Pu Yi only had one brother, Pu Jie. He was one year younger than Pu Yi, the last Emperor of China.

Have you heard of another brother named Pu Ren? He actually had several brothers and sisters,
though apparently some of these were half-siblings.

The lady mentioned on this website claims to be Pu Ren's niece:

http://www.stavonhagen.org/

And some photos here (can be reached from the site above, so I don't think they intended to keep
it too private):

http://www.stavonhagen.net/photos.htm

Ones of particular interest:

http://www.stavonhagen.net/marypujie.jpg
http://www.stavonhagen.net/marypuren002.jpg
http://www.stavonhagen.net/puren%20and%20kids.jpg

An article which talks about Pu Jie's death in 1994:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...50C0A962958260

An article about Pu Ren written from 2006:
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/20...11_331143.html

On Wikipedia, information about both brothers can be found:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pujie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jin_Youzhi

Their father, Zaifeng, 2nd Prince Chun, had 5 sons and 7 daughters:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaifeng%2C_2nd_Prince_Chun

Though wikipedia doesn't exactly state it, after piecing together some facts, it seems that Pu Ren
is the half-brother of Pujie and Pu Yi.

A more complete picture of the genealogy can be found here (search for "P'u-yi" on the page):

http://www.4dw.net/royalark/China/manchu13.htm

Interesting stuff!










floatingmoon -

Both Ming royalty and Qing royalty are royalty. It's part of the history.
China belongs to everyone in China.










royba -

Thank you cdn_in_bj

It seems I was wrong, and I am grateful to you for the correction.

I have now found out that Prince Chun had five sons and seven daughters: The five sons were:
Pu Yi who became Emperor of China (deceased)
Pu Jie (deceased)
Pu Ju (He died at the age of one year.)
Pu Ju, died in Shanghai on 25th September 1918.
Pu Ren, who was still alive in 2006, and is believed to be still alive today at the age of 89. He
had three sons and two daughters.

In 2006, a representative from Imperial Tours published an interview with Pu Ren in a newsletter
(and offers one-on-one interviews with him to selected, paying, participants in their tours.) See:
http://www.imperialtours.net/newsletters072006.htm.

It seems that Pu Ren, then at the ripe age of 88 was so deaf the interviewer had to write down his
questions.

Imperial Tours is based in San Francisco, USA, and was founded by Guy Rubin, a British Citizen
claiming to have graduated from Cambridge University, England, and Nancy Kim, who grew up in the
States (it is not known where she was born) She claims to have an art history degree from the
University of Pennsylvania, as well as the universities of London, Seoul and Beijing.

_______________________________________________________
See my latest book, "10,000 Chinese Numbers." published by TuDragons Press, and available from
www.lulu.com










zozzen -



Quote:

Good to know that some of them have changed the name to 金. I was wondering if they had it
changed ... 金 is a very logical and convenient name ...

But 金 is regarded as an insulting surname for some descendants of Aisin-Gioro, because it was
Yuan Shikai who asked them to change to this surname. As far as i remember, 趙, 愛 are also
adapted as their chinese surname today.










Quest -

This is another account of 长平公主:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_wZ2R2YX5Ck

wiki 《帝女花》
崇禎末年，明思宗長女長平公主因奉帝命而在乾清宮前連理樹下選駙馬，最�
��選擇下嫁太僕之子周世顯。（樹盟）　當時闖王李自成攻入北京宮殿；崇��
�因此手刃眾皇女後，自縊於媒山。（香劫）　長平公主雖被明思宗所砍殺，
卻未至氣絕，被周鍾拯救送回家中。（乞屍）　後來，清軍入關並滅了闖軍�
��遷都北京。周鍾想向清朝投降，意圖獻出長平公主。長平公主得到周鍾之��
�瑞蘭及老尼姑的相助，裝死避居維摩庵中。世顯偶然經過維摩庵，遇上扮作
女尼的長平公主。經過幾番試探後，長平公主才與周世顯相認，並相約於是�
��在紫玉山房會面。（庵遇、相認）　此事為清朝皇帝知道了，迫使周世顯��
�長平公主一同返宮。（迎鳳）　夫妻二人為求清帝善葬皇父，釋放皇弟，遂
佯裝返宮，並在乾清宮前連理樹下重相交拜，然後雙雙服毒自殺殉國。










fireball9261 -

The princess in this thread was Princess Changping of Ming dynasty. Please see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Changping Btw, the written biography of her after her death
was probably a partial Qing propaganga document and couldn't be fully trusted for her later life
under Qing's rule.

It was said that her father told her, as he was chopping down with his sword, "Never, ever born
into a royal family again in all of your future reincarnations!"
(願汝生生世世莫生於帝王家!) There was also document said, "Why did you born into our
family?") After chopping off her arm (her father missed because he couldn't look at her at the
last minute), he threw away his sword and left her to die -- I think he couldn't bear to chop at
her the 2nd time.

She lived, and probably some ladies in waiting or eunuch took her to her fiance's home. Her
fiance's family turned her over to the new Qing rulers for favors. The Qing rulers decided to use
her as a political tool to show other Ming royalties that they could trust Qing rulers and
surrender. Also, Qing rulers could show other Han Chinese that they were friends to the Ming
dynasty and not enemies. Therefore, they treated her pretty well. She asked to become a nun, but
the Qing rulers ordered her fiance to marry her. I don't think her fiance was willing to marry a
Princess from an overthrown dynasty. I remember reading from somewhere that her husband treated
her badly. He had several other concubines and many female slaves, and he flaunted them in front
of her. She died fairly soon after her marriage (like within one or two years).












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