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Character to words ratio
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kdavid -

Seeing how a number of characters seem to be used a number of times in different, and not
necessarily related, words, how many actual characters do you think would be needed to write, say,
the 4,000 most common words used in daily life. And then some, what about 10,000 words?



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roddy -

If you're willing to take the HSK vocab lists as an acceptable take on 'most common words'. you
can come up with this fairly easily:

Level 1: 1033 words, 798 characters
Level 2: 2018 words, 808 characters
Level 3: 2202 words, 598 characters
Level 4: 3569 words, 670 characters

So, rounding off to friendly numbers
Your first 1000 words need 800 characters
Your first 3000 words need 1500 characters
Your first 5000 words need 2100 characters
Your first 8800 words need 2800 characters

The main character learning 'push' would therefore be at the start, assuming of course you are
learning to write. At Level 1 you have to learn 800 characters and you get only 1000 words in
return. But by Level Four you get over three times as many words for less additional characters -
although tragically you still have to actually learn the words, you can't just learn the
characters and wait for them to pop into your head.










kdavid -

That's exactly what I was looking for. Those numbers look like Christmas morning. Now I don't feel
so hopeless. Thanks, Roddy!










Shadowdh -

Yep me too.. thanks Roddy,

this is quite useful info.. I know what you mean about the words though... why is it that when two
characters are combined they can come to mean something completely different to what you
thought... sigh...










HashiriKata -



Quote:

why is it that when two characters are combined they can come to mean something completely
different to what you thought... sigh...

There're 2 possible answers to this:

1. To keep the number of characters down, out of pity for us learners.
2. To frustrate foreigners who try to master the language.












mamba9 -

sounds exactly like chemistry to me. Remove an oxygen and all of a sudden it turns to poison lol.










roddy -

This is a related tool - you can plug in the characters you already know / are learning / dream
vaguely of one day being somewhat familiar with, and it will output the words that those
characters will allow you to write. It can be kind of encouraging to see sometimes how very simple
characters you might learn early on in a writing course - say 中,立,天,文 - can combine to
produce less common bits of vocab like 中立 and 天文.

I'd imagine there's something out there that works in reverse - plug in the vocab you already know
and get a list of the characters you'll need to learn how to write - but I don't know specifically
where.










Hero Doug -

Yeah I'll second that, it is a very promising list. 3000 characters for 10 000 words is a really
nice ratio.










roddy -

Probably also worth noting that as the words are restricted to those on the HSK lists, you'd also
find that those characters give you 'extra' words。 笔记本, for example, isn't on the lists,
but you'd be able to write it with characters you'd learn at first level.










Koneko -



Quote:


Originally Posted by Shadowdh

why is it that when two characters are combined they can come to mean something completely
different to what you thought


I cannot really answer your question here but I think you can discover more through 语素.
语素 is like a "proper" Chinese intermediate grammar once you have mastered most Chinese basic
grammar.

A good knowledge of 语素 will enable you to tell which characters can be combined and used as a
pair, 3-character-word, etc. You will also gain a deeper understanding of the uniqueness of
Chinese characters.

K.












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