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Chinese language - Wangfujing Street

2009-01-31T07:39:00.001-08:00

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Wangfujing Street

( 2008-07-08 )

Wangfujing Street, located in the Dongcheng District of Beijing, is one of China’s most attractive and modern shopping streets. Now much of the road is off-limits to cars and other motor vehicles, and it is not rare to see the entire street full of people.

Since the middle of Ming Dynasty (1368-1644) there have been commercial activities. In the Qing Dynasty (1644-1911), eight aristocratic estates and princess residence were built here, soon after when a well full of sweet water was discovered, thereby giving the street its name "Wang Fu"
(=aristocratic residence), "Jing" (=well). In 1903, Dong'an market was formed. Wangfujing has become one of the four traditional downtown areas of Beijing, in addition to Dashilar, Xidan, and Liulichang.

The Street starts from Wangfujing Nankou, where the Oriental Plaza and the Beijing Hotel are located. It then heads north, passing the Wangfujing Xinhua Bookstore, the Beijing Department Store as well as the Beijing Foreign Languages Bookstore before ending at the Xindong’an Plaza.

Prior to the late 1990s trolleybuses, buses, and other traffic ran through the street, making it rather congested. Modifications in 1999 and 2000 made much of Wangfujing Street car-free (aside from the tour trolley and occasional military vehicles doing bank transfers).

Wangfujing is now home to around 280 famous brands of Beijing, such as Shengxifu hat store, Tongshenghe shoe shop, Wuyutai tea house. A photo studio which took formal photos of the first Chinese leadership, the New China Woman and Children Department Store helped established by Soong Ching-ling
(Mme Sun Yat-sen) were also located on the street.

Wangfujing has a selection of exotic food on the Snack Street as well as lots of mouth-watering common foods, such as Chuanr (meat kebabs, commonly made of lamb) and desserts like Tanghulu and candied fruits.

Wangfujing has a station on the Beijing subway network, Line 1 has a station at the southern end of the street, which is a stop away eastbound from Tiananmen Square (Tiananmen West or East Stations).

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* Beijing Paralympics Emblem ( 07-10 )
* Environmental Emblem of Beijing 2008 ( 07-10 )
* Emblem of the Beijing Olympic Torch Relay ( 07-10 )
* Emblem of the Beijing 2008 OYC ( 07-10 )
* Emblem of the Beijing Olympic Cultural Festival ( 07-10 )

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* Museums to exhibit 1,000 national treasures
* Creating new rituals, Beijing style
* Marine mural unveiled in capital
* Illustrated Olympic giant panda story comes out
* Ten recommended Beijing shopping streets

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* Dance Along the River during the Qingming Festival
* Concert by Macao Chinese Orchestra
* Kataklo Athletic Dance Theatre
* UK Contemporary Exhibition
* The Russia Star Ballet

Olympic on Beijing's Axis

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Chinese Class - Liubo

2009-01-31T00:06:00.001-08:00

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Liubo

( 2008-07-07 )

It is clear that the players did not simply throw the sticks, but they rather placed them in order to interpret them. Then, the result was comparable to the famous hexagrams, related to the Tao philosophy, and the Yijing, the Book of Changes. Made of six continuous or dotted lines, representing
the yang and the yin principles respectively, they were the key of the Chinese astrology.

The Liubo appears to have borne a strong mystical spirit and its board was at the same time a cosmological, a calendar and a divination instrument.

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* Dancing Beijing -- Beijing 2008 Olympic Emblem

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* Beijing Paralympics Emblem ( 07-10 )
* Environmental Emblem of Beijing 2008 ( 07-10 )
* Emblem of the Beijing Olympic Torch Relay ( 07-10 )
* Emblem of the Beijing 2008 OYC ( 07-10 )
* Emblem of the Beijing Olympic Cultural Festival ( 07-10 )

News More

* Museums to exhibit 1,000 national treasures
* Creating new rituals, Beijing style
* Marine mural unveiled in capital
* Illustrated Olympic giant panda story comes out
* Ten recommended Beijing shopping streets

Meet in Beijing More

* Dance Along the River during the Qingming Festival
* Concert by Macao Chinese Orchestra
* Kataklo Athletic Dance Theatre
* UK Contemporary Exhibition
* The Russia Star Ballet

Olympic on Beijing's Axis

　 Online Tour

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Copyright 2003 Ministry of Culture, P.R.China. All rights reserved

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Chinese Tutor - BYU Ballroom Dance Company

2009-01-24T08:04:00.001-08:00

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BYU Ballroom Dance Company

( 2008-07-01 )

The Brigham Young University Ballroom Dance Company from Provo, Utah is one of the best formation ballroom dance teams in the world. It presented an outstanding performance on June 24-25 at the Poly Theatre, Beijing.

The BYU Ballroom Dance Company is from the Department of Dance of the College of Health and Human Performance at Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah. It has been a part of Brigham Young University for nearly 50 years and competes and performs throughout the world. It has won the U.S. National
Formation Dance Championship every year since 1982.

The company has toured with its variety showcase of Latin and international dance styles—including waltz, samba, foxtrot, and hustle—throughout Europe, the Middle East, the South Pacific, eastern Asia, and the United States. They have also performed as special guest artists at ballroom dance
competitions in China, Ukraine, and Hungary. In 2002, BYU Young Ambassadors performed on Winter Olympic Games in Salt Lake City, their incomparable excellence impressed the world. And always, no matter where they perform, the Ballroom Dance Company dazzles and delights people.

Program Opening dance: Gotta Dance Foxtrot: Foggy Day In London Town West Coast Swing: Tail Feather Theatre Arts: If You Could Hie to Kolob Viennese Waltz: Waltz of the Flowers Coast Swing: Regular Joe

Samba: It Had Better Be Tonight Tango: La Cumparsita Rumba: If That Were Me; Pirates of the Caribbean Waltz: Walk With Me

Edited by Lency,Wang Nan

　 Emblems More

* Dancing Beijing -- Beijing 2008 Olympic Emblem

============================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================

* Beijing Paralympics Emblem ( 07-10 )
* Environmental Emblem of Beijing 2008 ( 07-10 )
* Emblem of the Beijing Olympic Torch Relay ( 07-10 )
* Emblem of the Beijing 2008 OYC ( 07-10 )
* Emblem of the Beijing Olympic Cultural Festival ( 07-10 )

News More

* Museums to exhibit 1,000 national treasures
* Creating new rituals, Beijing style
* Marine mural unveiled in capital
* Illustrated Olympic giant panda story comes out
* Ten recommended Beijing shopping streets

Meet in Beijing More

* Dance Along the River during the Qingming Festival
* Concert by Macao Chinese Orchestra
* Kataklo Athletic Dance Theatre
* UK Contemporary Exhibition
* The Russia Star Ballet

Olympic on Beijing's Axis

　 Online Tour

============================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================

| About us | E-mail | Contact |

Constructed by .cn
Copyright 2003 Ministry of Culture, P.R.China. All rights reserved

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Free Chinese Lesson - Dancing for Sichuan

2009-01-14T04:11:00.001-08:00

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Dancing for Sichuan

Although the nation's three days of National Mourning came to a close on Wednesday, a number of shows continue to raise funds for Sichuan's earthquake victims.

Tonight, the Nederlands Dans Theater II (NDT II) will perform at the PLA Theater in the Chinese capital, as previously scheduled.

But, following the quake, Wu Promotion, the marketing handler for NDT II's Beijing tour, has announced it will donate the show's box-office proceeds to quake relief efforts. The donation is estimated at 160,000 yuan ($22,987).

"Modern Dance is not that popular in China, and the revenue of the show is not a big sum of money. But, I do hope to do something for the people there," said Wu Jiatong, general manager of Wu Promotion.

The leading European modern dance company will perform three pieces: Jiri Kylian's Sleepless, Ohad Naharin's Minus 16 and Johan Inger's Dream Play.

Renowned Prague-born choreographer Kylidan's Sleepless is set against a synthetic backdrop with hidden spaces that converts the stage into a place of illusion, fantasy and unexpected connections. Minus 16 is an impressive work for dancers set to a thrilling musical compilation of cha-cha, mambo
and traditional Israeli music. With Dream Play, Inger created an abstract yet narrative ballet to Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring.

Established in 1959, the Nederlands Dans Theatre (NDT) focuses on exploring new forms of dance, technique and broadening their existence with fresh ideas and experimentations. Although all NDT's dancers are classically trained in ballet, NDT performers are strongest in modern dance at the
international level.

After years of development and mastery, NDT has established two distinct ensembles that represent dancers of different generations.

NDT I consists only of experienced performers, whereas young and budding talents make up NDT II. Internationally, NDT II is famous for being one of the most revolutionary institutions of modern dance.

Editor:Wang Nan

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Chinese School - Masks of Nuo Altar Opera and Guizhou Local Opera

2009-01-13T07:32:00.001-08:00

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Masks of Nuo Altar Opera and Guizhou Local Opera

Guizhou Nuo Opera Masks

01. The Mountain King

02. The Nuo God

03. The Nuo Goddess

04. Kai Shan

05. Qin Tong

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Learn mandarin - Contemporary Coins

2009-01-12T07:37:00.001-08:00

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Contemporary Coins

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Learning Chinese - When Marilyn Monroe Meets Chinese Master

2009-01-11T04:11:00.001-08:00

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When Marilyn Monroe Meets Chinese Master

Hidden in the back of a longtang in the former French Concession, but separated from the rest of the alley by a large wood paneled door, this gallery's exhibition spaces have been immaculately refurbished.

A quaint courtyard out front distinguishes the gallery from many of its more sterile brethren throughout Shanghai. Zhang Wei is a contemporary artist who has dabbled in many forms of media including graphic design and fiction writing. However, this show, curated by Jeremie Thircuir, focuses on a
single series called "Qi Baishi vs. Marilyn," which juxtaposes the American sex icon with the master calligrapher and artist, Qi, who worked unrecognized well into his 60s. The style of the series combines a derivation of Qi's fanciful watercolor figures and contrasts this with voluptuous and at
times lewd images of Marilyn.

The picture made by Zhang Wei, a Chinese contemporary artiest, combines Qi Baishi's fanciful watercolor figures and voluptuous images of Marilyn Monroe.

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Study Chinese - French Opera Le Roi d'Ys Hits Beijing Stage

2009-01-10T04:10:00.001-08:00

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French Opera Le Roi d'Ys Hits Beijing Stage

Love and hate weigh upon every decision Princess Magared makes in the French opera "Le Roi d'Ys." The princess must save her country while nursing a broken heart. After fearlessly pursuing love, she discovers that the man she loves is fond of her sister, Rozenn. In the end, she commits suicide by
drowning herself in the deep, dark sea.

The classic French opera "Le Roi d'Ys" will run from April 3rd to 6th at Beijing's National Center for the Performing Arts. The opera, composed by Lalo, premiered in 1888. Due to its complex staging requirements, the last two performances were held 23 years apart, in 1984 and 2007. The opera is
considered a classic French production, but is seen as a mysterious pearl buried under the dust, Fan Yijiang, deputy president of the National Center for the Performing Arts, says. Fan is responsible for bringing the opera to the Beijing theater.

"'Le Roi d'Ys' is an excellent piece. It's limited performances in France have not affected its irreplaceable spot at all."

Robert Gonnella is the pianist and the vocal coach for "Le Roi d' Ys." He describes the opera as a an eternal fairy tale, full of truths about life and appealing characters who run the gamut from wicked to angelic. Compared the French opera "Carmen," the most frequently performed opera around the
world, Gonnella says "Le Roi' d Ys" is more refined and less outdated.

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Learn Mandarin online - 08' Collection -- Beijing Architecture Work

2009-01-09T07:42:00.001-08:00

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08' Collection -- Beijing Architecture Work

A "Beijing 08' Collection -- Beijing Architecture Work," is exhibiting at A3 (A-cubed) Gallery starting February 15 through March 2008, displaying British photographer Alister Benn's newest work.

This is the first public show following A3 Gallery’s opening on Nov 29, 2007. The owners of the gallery are Juanli Sun and her husband Alister Benn. Sun is one of the finest bird photographers in China. After settling into their home in Beijing, Sun opened the A3 (A-cubed) Gallery in the
world-class 798 Art District to showcase the fine art prints and contemporary works of her husband.

Alister Benn, famous for his nature and landscape photography, now focuses his lens on the skyscrapers of Beijing.

"Alister plays subtly with light, line and color in these beautifully printed and framed set of photographs. Building interiors, window reflections, even people join as part of the overall composition, appearing as small details that attract the eye and humanize our overall impression. Alisters'
love for his adopted city shows and his work presents a positive light on modern Beijing."

--By Peter Takeuchi, San Francisco, California, December 2007.

By Liu Rong

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Chinese Online Class - Wang Xuan: Father of Laser Photo Typesetting System

2009-01-08T04:06:00.001-08:00

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Created in China>Papermaking and Printing>People

Wang Xuan: Father of Laser Photo Typesetting System

He has been vice-chairman of the 10th Central Committee of Jiu San Society since 1995, and also the vice chairman of the 10th CPPCC (National Committee of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference).

Enormous Contributions to China's Press and Printing Industry

Looking at the newspaper films produced with laser photo typesetting system

During his first ten years of work at his alma mater after graduation, Wang accumulated practical experiences in the fields of computer software and hardware. So in 1961, he started his research on the combination of software and hardware, undertaking the exploration of a high-level language
programming system.

The 1970s saw humankind step into an age of information exploration. China, as the birthplace of printing, launched an important research project -- "748 Project," which mainly focused on Chinese character processing. There were three sub-projects, and Wang was in charge of the research and
development of a precision photo-typesetting system for Chinese characters .

Prior to the project, many companies and individuals had been engaged in the research on the typesetting of Chinese characters, but without achieving anything substantial. Wang Xuan, with the foresight and sagacity of a scientist, sensed the impending opportunity. Though well aware of the grand
mission of invigorating China's national industry, he dauntlessly shouldered the project.

In 1976, Wang worked out a plan to directly manufacture a fourth-generation laser photo-typesetting system instead of just making a transition from the second and third generations of photo typesetting, which meant he would have to finish the work that took western countries 40 years to accomplish.

With regard to the characteristics and difficulties of publishing Chinese characters, he invented the high-efficiency compression and restoration method. He also took the lead in designing a special chip for the system. He was also the first to use control information (parameters) to describe the
characteristics of breadth, which he has patented in Europe and China.

Professor Wang Xuan in his office

In July of 1979, the research on laser photo-typesetting system of Chinese characters achieved preliminary results. In 1985, II-type system was put into productive use, and was given the first-prize National Awards for Science and Technology Progress in 1987 and 1995. Besides, the invention was
twice listed as one of the Top Ten National Scientific Achievements. As the only four-time winner of state-level awards, Wang Xuan's invention is hailed as the greatest one within the 1000-plus years after the invention of movable type printing in Chinese printing history.

December 2, 1987 was a historical day that will long be remembered by Wang Xuan and his fellow researchers. With the help from cooperation units, the typesetting workers of The Economic Daily used the laser photo typesetting by computer for the first time, leaving behind the low-efficiency and
poisonous letterpress printing, which signaled that China's printing had entered the era of "light and electricity."

In 1988, Wang worked on and formed a Chinese-language newspaper editing and a publishing system using large computer terminals; a Chinese-language laser typesetting system for color printing; a teletransmission publishing system; and a management system for news collection and editing. These
technologies can compete with the best in the world.

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Free Chinese Lesson - Ladle Mask of “She Huo”

2009-01-07T04:18:00.001-08:00

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Ladle Mask of “She Huo”

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Speak Chinese - Chinese Traditional Kite Craft

2009-01-06T04:17:00.001-08:00

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Created in China>Art Treasures>Chinese Crafts and Fine Arts>Folk Crafts

Chinese Traditional Kite Craft

Various art systems and genres have formed over time. Generally, there are six kinds: Beijing kite, Weifang kite, Tianjin kite, Nantong kite, Jiangnan kite, and Taiwan kite.

1. Beijing kites

Generally, there are seven kinds of artistic sculptures concerning Beijing kites: pricking swallow, hard wing, soft wing, symmetrical swallows, board, cluster, and canister.

The characteristics of Beijing kites include delicate frameworks, precise colored drawings, naturalness and gracefulness, and a high worthiness of being viewed and admired.

Typical Beijing kites are Caoshi, Jinshi, and Hashi kites, with new types of Beijing kites having come forth in a great number in recent years.

2. Weifang kites

Weifang kites, during a long development period, have passed its unique artistic individuality from generation to generation, with there being innovations in many aspects such as theme, sculpture, and painting. Meanwhile, this kind of kite has similarities with Beijing and Tianjing kites.

Weifang kites fully demonstrate folk custom and vividness, which comes from adopting the advantages of other kinds of kites. Especially, in terms of the sculpture structure and painting color, Weifang kites transfer techniques of making woodblock New Year pictures to kite making and exercise the
skill of traditional Chinese painting on drawing. It forms a unique feature of being exquisite in sculpture and delicate and gorgeous in artwork, which has become one of the important genres of Chinese kites.

The characteristics of the Weifang kites' artistic sculpture and style are their carefully selected materials, exquisite sculptures, delicateness, vivid images, bright-colored paintings, various kinds, and agile flying-off.

Among all the families of the Chinese kites, Weifang kites are affluent in themes, singular in the selection of material, magnified and transfigured in design, technical in painting by New Year's picture drawing skills, and ingenious in exercising the mechanics on flying-off, which composes its
serene style and peculiar verve. It has a long history and for a long time has been famous all over the world.

3. Tianjin kites

The outstanding characteristics of Tianjin kites are the techniques of the framework and fastening and the colors of the designs. Based on traditional sculpture, Tianjin kites try to be unique, aiming to find something new and fresh in design and painting.

4. Nantong kites

The artistic style of Nantong kites can be generalized as being plain in sculpture, having a multi-tuned whistle, and demonstrating elegance on colored patterns. The basic style of Nantong kites can be divided into "fixed-snipe" and "unfixed-snipe." (what does snipe refer to )

The most outstanding characteristic of Nantong kites is the sound device. Various whistles, big and small, with the quantity differing from one hundred to three hundred, are installed on the Nantong kites, hence the kites' nickname of "Symphony on Air."

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Learn Mandarin online - Collected Writings on the Washing Away of Wrongs

2009-01-05T04:17:00.001-08:00

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Created in China>Traditional Chinese Medicine >Books

Collected Writings on the Washing Away of Wrongs

The book gives a systematic summary of the experience in corpse appearance examination in forensic medicine before the Song Dynasty, becoming the first book to offer systematic guidance on corpse appearance examination. It has made a great contribution to the development of forensic medicine in
the world.

The book is a representative work on ancient forensic medicine. After Xiyuan Jilu, there were dozens of books published in succession on forensic medicine, such as Pingyuan Lu, Wuyuan Lu, Xiyuan Jielu, Xiyuan Falu, and Xiyuan Lu proofread by Luli Guan (Publishing House). But none of the books
deviated from Xiyuan Jilu in central contents. Hence, this book is the ancestor of all the other books of the same kind in later generations, marking an epoch in the development of forensic medicine in China.

The book was not only the guiding book for postmortem examination in ancient forensic medicine in China, but was also spread to Korea, Japan, Vietnam, and other countries. By the end of the 19th century, it was the basis for postmortem examination in those countries. As the representative work of
Asian ancient forensic medicine, it contributed greatly to the cultural exchange between China and other countries.

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Chinese Character - Exhibition of Chinese Abstract Art

2009-01-04T04:10:00.001-08:00

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Exhibition of Chinese Abstract Art

Most of these artists have practical knowledge in both oriental and occidental culture, especially the ability to think about cultural problems and the ability to search for personal expression. At the same time, almost every one has received very strict training in realistic depiction. Though
they have different reasons and approaches to abstract art, they share an aesthetic logic in their search for free expression and a comprehensive understanding of innermost being.

From the relationship between the mind and the mood of the Daoism, artist Qiu Shihua understands the meaning of vacant time and space; as for Li Huasheng, who draws from the traditional Chinese landscape painting to develop the value of temperament through repetitive strokes.

Wang Chuan benefits considerably from the great abstract expressionists like William De Kooning and Robert Motherwell, etc. His creations following a life-and-death struggle, have turned quiet, unconventional, and even elegant.

Shen Chen is looking for the implication of freedom by fusing the abstract language of the West with the free and natural state of the East. Chihung Yang, despite of his mastery of the essence of the American abstract expressionism, has a deep understanding of the Chinese natural symbolism and the
tradition of mysticism. He still makes works full of oriental atmosphere.

As a representative of Chinese ‘experimental ink painting’, Liu Zijian’s ‘black painting’ is in terms of its spirit very much like the free and unfettered journey of the modern version. Because of an indulgence in modern French formalism, Zhou Li’s art seems especially to be
intelligent and transparent. Her identity as an oriental female can only be explained by the elegant and sensitive quality of her work. Lin Yan’s art originally comes from the concept art of ‘minimalism’; she uses the Oriental media of the (xuan) paper and the ink to enrich the
‘minimalism’ with greater cultural dimensions.

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Pnyin - Upcoming International Art Competitions

2009-01-03T23:24:00.001-08:00

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Upcoming International Art Competitions

The Sixth International Festival Sharq Taronalari with Unique Melodies of the East

August 24--31

Email: sharq2007@mail.ru
Address：700129, UZBEKISTAN, Taskent, Navoi Str., 30
Tel：998 71 144 56 52, 998 71 144 19 76
Fax：998 71 144 13 54, 998 71 144 19 76

2007 "George Enescu" International Competition

Sept. 2--9

Address：ARTEXIM Calea Victoriei 155,bloc D1,Scara 8,etaj 2, Sector 1,010073 Bucharest- Romania
Email：artexim@pcnet.ro，
Website: www.festivalenescu.ro
Tel：40 21 317 8081/82/83
Fax：40 21 311 0200

The 9th Madame Butterfly Competition 2007

Sept.16-21

Email：info@nationalopera.md
Website:
Address：The National Opera and Ballet Theatre 152, Stefan cel Mare Bld., Chisinau, MD 2012, Republic of Moldova
Tel：373 22 245167
Fax：373 22 245158

The fourth Byulbyul International Vocalist Competitions

November 26 to December 6
Email：info@yulbyul.az
Website:www.byulbyul.az
Tel：99412 4934398，99412 4930204
Fax：99412 4935605

International Competition of Guitarists in Ukraine-2007

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Ubuntu distribution

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Ubuntu distribution

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Hardest sound to pronounce?

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Posted By jwarriner

Hardest to pronounce - rui?

Zhuangzi, djwebb2004, and others are pretty close trying to get to the leading r sound as in ri
and rui when they suggest approaching it from shui and j'taime.
The sound is both retroflex (tongue...

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Why Do You Learn Chinese?(ple help me with the survey)

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Posted By lpascoe

1. I decided to learn Mandarin because I moved...

1. I decided to learn Mandarin because I moved to Taiwan and it makes life here a lot easier.
Also, now that I'm getting better at it, I figure it might come in handy in the future as far as
work...

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dashan 大山, Igor(from taiwan) and any others who have disgustingly good chinese

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Posted By in_lab

Isn't a New Jersey accent very similar to a...

Isn't a New Jersey accent very similar to a Brooklyn accent? Were the people who looked down on
you people with Jersey accents or more standard accents?

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Tips for beginners?

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Well, my apologies if you found it...

Well, my apologies if you found it 'simple-minded'.

The fact remains that, especially if you come to China to teach and not to study Chinese, learning
the language from scratch over here is not...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 26th February 2006, 10:22 AM

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Tips for beginners?

Views: 5,746

Posted By renegadedog

Software for learning

Someone mentioned pimsleur on the first page... I started by trying pimsleur, and I have to say I
don't really rate it. It uses a very 'phrasebook'y approach, very artificial, with this cheesy
guy...

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为什么很多的汉语学习者在这里不用汉语?

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Posted By trooper

I think the sub forum's a good idea. It will work...

I think the sub forum's a good idea. It will work best if the level of Chinese in most of the
threads is not too advanced and the posts are kept quite short, otherwise most learners will be
scared...

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most embarrassing moment while learning Chinese

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Posted By markalexander100

My dictionary has "high tide" as the...

My dictionary has "high tide" as the first meaning for 高潮 , and climax (in general) as number
three.
It also says that 大潮 is a "syzygial" tide, which I had to look up in my English dictionary. ...

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Why do caucasians love English?

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Posted By jiasen

Re: Why do caucasians love English?

Admittingly I haven't read the whole thread, but I would think the choice between languages
shouldn't really be made into too much of a drama. I don't know if any of you guys used to watch
Seinfeld,...

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Practicing Chinese with Chinese is impossible!!!

Views: 9,598

Posted By eric

HEHE the trick to being a foreigner in China is...

HEHE

the trick to being a foreigner in China is pretending you dont speak english; pretend you are
french or maybe from some obscure country.

about speaking Chinese in the USA:

chinese people...

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Chinesepod.com-Does it really work?

Views: 10,684

Posted By gato

Re: Chinesepod.com-Does it really work?

I think they probably made the decision that there wouldn't be enough real advanced students to
make providing such advanced material profitable.

First, there are not too many real advanced...

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Steve Kaufmann - How good is he?

Views: 9,086

Posted By wenhailin

Re: Steve Kaufmann - How good is he?

hi steve, really looking forward to the launch of the lingQ system, just got a question about what
you said earlier.

"4) Use the squared exercise paper that Chinese school children use (or used to...

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which chinese dialect(s) do you like most?

Views: 8,451

Posted By chenpv

hehe

I once tore an English book into pieces, but bought a new one and resumed learning afterward.:)

And one more thing, if only I could speak English as fluently as some of you who could speak
decent...

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How could I get better at tones?

Views: 18,328

Posted By maxham

I went through much the same thing....after 2 and...

I went through much the same thing....after 2 and a half years "studying" Chinese at university in
Australia, I came here to China and found that noone could understand a word I said -
literally!!...

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Chinese Online Class - Breakthrough in learning Characters? - Page 2 -

2008-12-11T08:05:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Breakthrough in learning Characters?
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chrismccoll -

Hi, I've made a similar study of the basic graphic elements of Chinese characters if anyone's
interested in publishing it. I have drawn diagrams to show the relative positions of the graphic
components. It certainly helped me to learn characters more rapidly and made looking up the
pronunciation faster. So I put all the characters containing a square for example onto one
diagram, all the characters containing the element 力 on another etc. If anyone is interested in
publishing it they can contact me.

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waynewalter -

Chris,

This sounds most intriguing. I would like to see it and probably would be happy to "publish" it.
Also, if you created it yourself, you might appreciate that I just started learning characters
myself after learning alot of Mandarin based on Pin-Yin.

So I could either offer additions or corrections, if you need that while I'm learning characters.

By the way, did you cross-classify characters? So if it has 3 root symbols do you put it under
each of them?

Also, have you worked out the meanings of the individual root symbols like the Professor I mention
did? That would also be helpful in learning and remembering characters.

Wayne

imron -

I can't recall the name off the top of my head, but when I was first learning characters, I had a
book that went through a whole bunch of these. And it seems more or less the same as what this
professor is talking about. I know that 灬 is for heat/fire, 氵is for water, 扌is for hand and
艹 is for plants, in addition to a whole lot more. Although some of the explanations and/or
accuracy of the etymology might not be the same, the basic concept of understanding the root
components and how they can be put together to form greater shapes/meanings is. It's definitely
not a new or breakthrough method, and it's a technique I've personally used to good effect when
learning characters, plus it's interesting to see the "logic" behind the way characters are made
up. The "logic" that I see might not be all that accurate, but it can still serve as as useful
device for helping remember certain characters.

There may be different explanations about history and etymology, but these things can only serve
as a rough guide anyway. In the end, there is no silver bullet for learning characters. You've
simply got to sit down and spend the time learning them.

renzhe -

waynewalter, you seem to be describing kangxi radicals. The four dots at the bottom of a character
, 灬, are the kangxi radical 84, fire, used in every Chinese dictionary in the world. You can
have a look at more radicals here: http://hmarty.free.fr/hanzi/bushou.php?ext=1 .

What this professor seems to claim is that he has discovered a more complex system behind Chinese
characters, going beyond radicals, where every character part actually carries meaning. Perhaps he
proves it in his book, I haven't read it yet, but it looks like a bunch of clever mnemonics.

My favourite mnemonic is for 哲. It consists of a hand (shou), a pound of weight (jin) and a
mouth (kou). I always imagine biting my fist out of frustration because philosophy is so boring,
and my fist probably weighs about a pound.

I don't know if this is exactly what the ancient Chinese had in mind, but all of us make up
explanations to help us along. The professor's may be better, and he may explain it and prove it
with extensive research in his book, but there's nothing earth-moving on that site that I've seen
so far.

waynewalter -

Renzhe,

Your link above shows the "conventional" radicals but not their form as then become part of
another character. Some look the same but many look quite different when included into another
character.

So I'm looking for training like the professors so see all the characters that have the similar
radical organized together so I can see the similarity and learn the meanings as a memory add.
Your list has meaning, though. That's good.

Sincerely,
Wayne

roddy -

Merging two threads . . .

roddy -

Actually deleting, posts were identical.

muyongshi -

Quote:

He provides the exact meaning for each of these root symbols.

Also, apparently some of the meanings of these word roots were lost in history and later analyzed
but were mistakenly identified.

So he is trying to in a sense disprove thousands of years of knowledge and commonly accepted
thoughts on a language???? Sounds fishy to me...just like when someone trys to come out with a
"NEW DIET"

Sorry, but claiming these things may help him make a bit of money, and maybe will help others
learn the language but not all characters have a meaning (especially in modern usage, and by this
I mean you can't look at the radicals and say WHY the character means what it does) and another
thing claiming that 馬 is not a pictograph is really ridiculous. This is commonly accepted
knowledge...

waynewalter -

Well, it appears here are no original "blue prints" or explanations of how the creator(s) of the
language intended it to be.

The professor openly acknowledges the work of those who came before him and simply gives evidence
for filling in some of the gaps and correcting obvious mistakes.

It seems obvious that the 4 dots can't represent legs on the horse since those same dots appear in
the symbol for fire and fish and birds which neither have four legs. Can anyone offer any proof
for that meaning of the 4 dots--as legs?

Personally, I remember feeling confused about the 4 dots under the bird when I was first
introduced to horse and bird symbols.

But so far, the professors ideas make it much easier to remember characters. In contrast, saying
the 4 dots are legs and then seeing them under fish and fire just confuses the dickens out of me.

So please, if someone can recommend a book that makes meaning out of the components that make up
characters, that will exponentially make it easier and quicker to learn them.

I am probably not alone. In fact, even if the meanings were purely fictitious but systematically
fit the pictures and related to the actual meaning of the character. WOW. That would be genius
indeed.

But claiming 4 dots represents 4 legs and then having that under a fish, cooking pot, and the word
for hot boggles my mind--even if that were true it makes it 10 times harder characters compared to
a logical system.

But, of course, the 4 dots as fire fits many characters, you can just visualize people cooking
horse meet, fish, bird, hot, a cooking pot, etc with a fire under it.

Would someone please recommend a book that make since like this since the professor has sold out.
I can't wait to get started.

Sincerely,
Wayne

muyongshi -

But that is where it was SIMPLIFIED to (and now I am not referring to simplified characters but
pictographs have undergone change) so what was originally pictured as legs way back when was over
the course of time simplified and changed into the "modern" strokes rendering the legs as for dots.

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Learn Chinese - Need help in translation to Chinese -

2008-12-10T08:05:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary
Need help in translation to Chinese
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poor_dad -

How do I say the following in Chinese:

How far is the store from your house?

Thanks.

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bhchao -

You can say "店離你家多遠"?

coolnicholas -

商店离你家有多远？

poor_dad -

Thank you very much.

wangw -

I'd like to say "从你家到商店有多远?"

mathiassan -

商店离你家有多远

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Chinese Online Class - New Chinese slang words -

2008-12-09T08:04:00.001-08:00

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New Chinese slang words
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Hong Yang (洪洋) -

Not sure if anyone has posted about this already???

I've recently heard about the addition of some new slang words into the standard Chinese lexicon
following some research conducted by CASS and the Ministry of Education. There were articles in
some of the expat rags including Time Out and China Daily. The articles only listed a few of the
total 171 new terms, such as 断背, 车奴 and 丁宠家庭. But I haven't been able to find the
rest of them. Does anyone know where a comprehensive list can be found?

Many thanks
洪洋

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roddy -

This it?.

889 -

Interesting list but meaningless, to me at least, without some sort of definitions.

Here's an explanation of the terms on another forum:

http://bbs.chinadaily.com.cn/viewthread.php?tid=575910

Hong Yang (洪洋) -

Yes, thats the one.

Cheers,
洪洋

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Free Chinese Lesson - Help with translation of the second half of 摸魚兒---元好問 -

2008-12-08T08:03:00.001-08:00

> Chinese Culture > Art and Literature
Help with translation of the second half of 摸魚兒---元好問
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Destio -

Could someone translate the second half of this poem into english please? Or an explanation of
each line/sentence. I understand the first half pretty good but the second half is really
confusing to me. Thanks

摸魚兒---元好問

問世間情是何物直教生死相許
天南地北雙飛客老翅幾回寒暑
歡樂趣離別苦就中更有痴兒女
君應有語渺萬里層雲千山暮雪隻影向誰去

橫汾路寂寞當年蕭鼓荒煙依舊平楚
招魂楚些何嗟及山鬼暗啼風雨
天也妒未信與鶯兒燕子俱黃土
千愁萬古為留待騷人狂歌痛飲來訪雁丘處

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fireball9261 -

橫汾路寂寞當年蕭鼓荒煙依舊平楚
Across the road of Shaanxi, lonely were the musical instruments of the old time, wilderness is
still the plain (or flat land?) of kingdom Chu (平楚 - I am not sure.).
招魂楚些何嗟及山鬼暗啼風雨
Calling some spirits of Chu -- Why are you sighing? The mountain spirits crying in the storm
silently (or crying for the storms secretly).

天也妒未信與鶯兒燕子俱黃土
Heaven is also jealous. There were no letters for me (maybe, I am not sure) (because) Orioles and
swallows were all turned into dust.

千愁萬古為留待騷人狂歌痛飲來訪雁丘處
Sorrow of ten thousand years, left for the poets, singing wildly and drinking deep, coming to
visit the hills of geese.

橫 - across
汾路 - 汾 is short term for Shaanxi province. So this is road of Shaanxi. Also, its capital
Xian was the old capital of China in several dynasties, such as Han and Tang. They were filled
with music from the court, and now they were no longer the center of China.
寂寞 - lonely
當年 - those years -- meaning old time
蕭鼓 - xiao is bamboo flute, and gu is the drum. Basically, the representation of musical
instruments.

荒煙 - Wilderness
依舊 - still
平楚 - flat plains of Chu or the plains of Chu -- I am not sure because I thought Chu has a lot
of rivers and I wouldn't call it flat necessarily, but I believe it might be related to kingdom of
Chu because he used stuff from kingdom Chu's poems later. (edited)

招魂 - It's both a custom and a famous poem of kingdom of Chu in the Eastern Zhou dynasty. After
a person was dead in Chu, his family would take his clothing to the roof to call for his spirits
(yes, Chinese believe there were 10 spirits in a person) back home. They used good food, beautiful
women, etc. to entice the dead spirits to come home. The poem 招魂 spoke of this custom, and the
poem might have been used in the ceremony also because the poet himself, Qu Yuan, was supposed to
be the high priest of the royal family of Chu. (edited)

楚 - I am guessing it's modifying the spirits before this, so it is like "of kingdom of Chu"

些 - Some - I guess
何[- why
嗟 - sigh
及 - for or about (? maybe, I don't know)
何嗟及 - sort of like what are you sighing for? Or why are you sighing? This is my guess, so
feel free to correct me, please. (edited)

山鬼 - mountain spirits in Chu's mythology. They were supposed to be beautiful women who rode
chariots pulled by leopards and had mountain cats as pets -- sort of like Amazons. 鬼 in here is
not a ghost. They liked to hunt and roam in the mountains.

暗 - secretly, silently
啼風雨 - crying for the storm or crying in the storm? I guess (edited)

天也妒 - Heaven is also jealous
未 - not
信 - letter. Here, it is worked as a noun. (Sorry, I said it was a verb earlier, but I thought
about it. It should be a noun followed by a verb 與. It's a classical way of arranging the
words.) (edited)
與 - give.
未信與 - There were no letters for me - I think. The reason is his use of 鶯兒, 燕子, & 雁
were all used in poems for instruments of deliverying letters or messages from lovers or friends.

鶯兒 - Orioles
燕子 - Swallows
俱 - all (turning into)
黃土 - dust or dirt.

未信與鶯兒燕子俱黃土 - Therefore, this part is as follows: I didn't get any letters
because the messenger birds were all dead.

千愁 - thousands of sorrow
萬古 - ten thousands of ages
為- to
留 - be left
待 - for

騷人 - poets
狂歌 - wild singing
痛飲 - deeply drinking
來訪 - coming to visit
雁丘 - the hill that has buried geese, or the tomb of geese.
處 - place, location

In addition, swallows and geese all meant trust worthy because they always come back to the old
place every year. (edited) They were also considered by poets to carry messages for family,
friends, and lovers. They can be called trusted messengers. Since they were all dead and the
letter and messages from the loved ones could not be delivered, the poet reasoned that it was
possibly that the heaven was jealous of his love for his loved ones, so the heaven let those
trusted messengers die. In a way, the poet blamed the death of the messengers for no letters from
his loved ones -- He did not want to face the possibilities that his lover had forgotten about
him. (edited)

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Chinese language - Seal Carving in Shanghai - Page 2 -

2008-12-07T08:06:00.001-08:00

> Chinese Culture > Art and Literature
Seal Carving in Shanghai
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shibole -

Quote:

Woliveri, have you tried the online Chinese seal generator? This is totally free.

That's kind of interesting, but none of your fonts are 小篆 or 印篆, and it looks like your
fonts don't have traditional characters either. So while this is kind of cool it isn't a useful
guide for how to carve a real traditional seal.

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y051313 -

Good points, shibole. Try the last style, it's in traditional characters. 篆体looks beautiful on
seals, I personally like that font very much. I believe it will be electronically available soon.

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Chinese Studies - Handwriting Thread!! - Page 3 -

2008-12-06T08:03:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Handwriting Thread!!
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muyongshi -

Heck unless I use two lines of paper in a word like 囊 (Even with a nice small .5 mechanical
pencil) it looks like the java the hun.

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Myriam -

Quote:

Heck unless I use two lines of paper in a word like 囊 (Even with a nice small .5 mechanical
pencil) it looks like the java the hun.

muyongshi, maybe you should try cursive handwriting.
Thanks to cursive, one can see that the simplified script makes sense after all.

muyongshi -

Yeah well not opposed to learning it but at the moment my teachers are opposed to me learning it

mythia -

to yonglin

I like the song that the lyric is for.

and kudos to you non native speakers, i am really impressed by how, urm..local, your handwritings
look, and very surprised to see writings in tradional characters! man, I cannot even do that...

shibole -

Quote:

That sounds scary...how militant are we talking?

Well, I draw the line short of stabbing people with them... don't worry. But they're cool. You can
fill them with colors of ink you mix yourself. They don't generate lots of waste like disposable
pens. And they have interesting writing characteristics like line width that varies with pressure
and stuff like that.

Unfortunately I'm still too embarrassed at my poor handwriting to upload a sample. My wife says it
looks like something she would write in elementary school no matter how carefully and neatly I
write.

adrianlondon -

Quote:

no matter how carefully and neatly I write

That's also the comments/problem I have with my writing. In fact, the neater I write it, the more
childish it looks. This is why you need to learn cursive writing if you want to write a bit more
like an adult.

It would be like writing English really slowly, with all the letters perfectly formed and none of
them joining up. Again, it would look like a (neat, studious) child's writing.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't mind writing chinese characters like a child. It matches my
speaking level anyway ;)

xiaocai -

I feel people these days care less and less about handwriting than they did, say, 20 years ago
(when I was in kindergarten). Two of my cousins have atrocious handwriting, but seem to deal with
their studies in high schools quite OK. So I guess that it is fine if you don't write in cursive
or any of the calligraphic styles to write "natively". However, if you do wish to write in a neat
but less "childish" way, there are some books for practice out there which can be used as both
guide books and quick references, and I still remember I used this back in secondary school. Of
course it is not for everyone and if you don't like his style, there are many others to choose
from. Just drop into a bookshop and you might find the right one you need.

shibole -

That book looks like it teaches fountain pen writing similar to this English book that I've been
using occasionally:
http://www.amazon.com/Learn-Write-Ch...dp/0300057717/

Though no matter how well I write characters in that style my wife tells me it looks like
elementary school writing, probably just because it isn't cursive-looking and my strokes aren't
perfect, even if the proportions are all dead-on.

But I don't care. If kids eventually learned to write like adults then hopefully I'll be able to
eventually learn to write like an adult too.

skylee -

The OP asks members to post their handwriting. I don't see any in recent posts.

[I've posted mine on another thread.]

shibole -

I'd post mine but I'm too embarrassed at how little Chinese I know

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Chinese Tutor - Guide to Dalian (大连) -

2008-12-05T08:03:00.001-08:00

> Wikis > Living in China > Guide to Dalian (大连)
Guide to Dalian (大连)'s Discussion
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roddy -

Created a Dalian guide, have added a bit of info, hopefully will pad it out a bit in the coming
months . . .

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Pnyin - Chinese beer + Sichuan food = really bad headache? - Page 2 -

2008-12-04T08:04:00.001-08:00

> Chinese Culture > Food
Chinese beer + Sichuan food = really bad headache?
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flameproof -

Quote:

but formaldehyde levels in Chinese beer are lower than WHO standards,

I think the WHO formaldehyde standard was about preserving dead bodies and not about consumption.

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imron -

I guess that makes the beer manufacturers rather forward thinking then.

cdn_in_bj -

Hey, wow I didn't expect to get this kind of reaction. Thanks guys for your suggestions.

Coriander and Sichuan food by itself is not a problem for me. If I have a lot of spicy Sichuan
food, the worst is that I'll be very... umm... "regular" the next day.

As for MSG, yes I am a bit sensitive to it but usually it just makes me a bit drowsy. However,
back home I did have a few bad cases where I ended up with a headache.

Imron, you mentioned the fake booze/formaledhyde thing. I actually did look into this, and I think
you may be onto something here. Now that I think of it, I very rarely drink during the day. If I
do drink, it's usually at night. And like I said, these headaches started a few hours after
drinking, not right away, so by this time I'd usually be passed out in bed. So I can conclude that
my getting headaches these times after drinking Yanjing beer may not be an abnormal occurrence for
me.

By the way, if you're sensitive to beer, I suggest you stay away from 金酒 (a type of baijiu).
Half a shot of that is enough for me to get a bad headache.

Quote:

Maybe you are just turning Chinese and get drunk after one or two small cups

That could be it too! I must say that after coming here, my drinking has gone way down.

Anyways, I think I'll from now on I'll just stay away from Yanjing. Though the more expensive
stuff in the clear, short (fat) bottles seems to be ok. In fact, I think it best I stay away from
beer in general, for the sake of my waistline. But with hard liquor one runs an even higher chance
of running into fake booze. Maybe I'll resort to drinking at home. What was the Chinese term for
that again? Oh right, 闷酒.

imron -

Quote:

Maybe I'll resort to drinking at home. What was the Chinese term for that again? Oh right, 闷酒

It's not 闷酒 if there are other people... when was the Wii Sports tournament again?

cdn_in_bj -

Quote:

It's not 闷酒 if there are other people... when was the Wii Sports tournament again?

That's very true! Hey, I still haven't gotten a Wii yet. In fact, I just heard that prices have
gone up (to around 2300) because the latest firmware renders the current modchips inoperable.
Prices are expected to stay high until they come out with a new modchip.

cdn_in_bj -

In my own version of 闷酒 I decided to conduct a taste test between Johnny Walker Black Label
and Chivas Regal 12 year this evening. Conclusions? I prefer Johnny Black, but after a few shots
of both the difference becomes academic. I truly haven't been buzzed this good in a long time. And
I've also rediscovered my love for potato chips.

And hey, no headache! So to hell with Yanjing!

roddy -

Quote:

At first I thought that maybe there was methanol in the beer or that I had somehow become alergic
to alcohol, but after some analysis . . .

Quote:

I decided to conduct a taste test . . .

A drunk! Me?! I'll have you know I'm a . . . hic . . . scientist!
I kind of gave up on the cheaper end of the bottled beer market - sure, it's dirt cheap, but I
found the quality to be variable. Particularly for drinking at home, as once you've carried it all
the way up the stairs . . . Pricier bottled stuff, or any tins, seem to be more consistent.

Never found myself to have a bad reaction to the stuff in combination with spicy food though.
Although a large lunch and beer may well have resulted in my sleeping through any after-effects.

wushijiao -

When I lived near Beijing, sometimes we would drink the cheap Yanjing when eating eat mutton
sticks. Not too much beer, mind you. But always more of a headache the next day (as compared to an
overall hangover). I was convinced it had something to do with the formaldehyde.

As far as Sichuan food, any additional headache that it might cause is outweighed by the
additional dose of deliciousness!

cdn_in_bj -

Quote:

A drunk! Me?! I'll have you know I'm a . . . hic . . . scientist!

Woke up this morning with a bit of a headache, but after drinking fluids and eating breakfast it
went away. So in otherwords, it was a proper hangover.

I plan to repeat the experiment with vodka, once I find a place here that carries Grey Goose.

rezaf -

I once got a very bad headache after drinking just 2 small bottles of tsingtao.

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Learning Chinese - 及，輿，和 -

2008-12-03T08:06:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary
及，輿，和
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82riceballs -

I've encountered three forms of and:

及，輿，and 和

I think the differences are that:
及 is used for formal papers (e.g. newspaper, textbook, formal letters, etc)
輿 is used for book titles and titles of other things (e.g. 羅密歐輿茱麗葉)
和 is used in everyday language (我和你)

are the differences correct? is there anything that could be added to them?

thanks in advance.

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Dani_man -

For the second character, I guess you meant 与 right? (與 in traditional form) .
indeed the two first are more formal, and usually used for nouns.

If you want to connect adjectives, you use 又 - 又好吃亮又便宜的菜 (tasty and cheap dish)
If you want to connect verbs you use 并 - 我做饭并打扫厨房 (I cooked and cleaned the
kitchen).
But - 我打扫厨房和洗手间（one verb - I cleaned the kitchen and the bathroom).

If you want to say: yesterday we went to run together, you cannot use 和，but use 跟，
昨天我跟他一起去跑步. In this case 跟 acts like "with".

82riceballs -

thanks!

Quest -

None of Dani's points is correct. They are not distinguished by parts of speech. There are old
threads on this topic.

skylee -

Quote:

If you want to say: yesterday we went to run together, you cannot use 和，but use
跟，昨天我跟他一起去跑步. In this case 跟 acts like "with".

You CAN use 和. 昨天我和他一起去跑步 is OK.

Sometimes, we can use different words / expressions to say the same thing. Sometimes they might
have different connotations, sometimes the meanings are the same. We use different words to make
what we say and what we write less monotonous and more interesting (which is why we need so many
words / expressions / chengyu).

IMO, 和 and 跟 are less formal, whereas 及 and 與 are more formal and used more in writing.

Dani_man -

well, link to these threads will be appreciated.

82riceballs -

thanks!!!

Luobot -

I found the following thread, which is worth taking a look at:
http://www. /showth...highlight=gen1

As Skylee indicated, you need to add 跟 to your list of “and” words.
Here are a couple of 跟 (for “and”) sentences that I heard used in podcasts on CLO:

But it's right between a bank and a convenience store
Kěshì tā jiù zài yī jiā yínháng gēn biànlì shāngdiàn de zhōngjiān
可是他就在一家银行跟便利商店的中间
可是他就在一家銀行跟便利商店的中間

I have a lot of money and credit cards inside
Wǒ yǒu hěnduō qián gēn xìnyòngkǎ zài lǐmiàn
我有很多钱跟信用卡在里面
我有很多錢跟信用卡在裡面

Luobot -

Another form of 'and' to add to the list is the reduplicated 又 (yòu) in the sentence pattern:
又 ... 又
yòu [a] ... yòu [b]
both [a] ... and [b]

Examples from Chinesepod:

今天吃了意大利菜又贵又难吃。
Jīntiān chī le Yìdàlì cài yòu guì yòu nánchī.
Today, ate Italian food that was both expensive and yucky.

又便宜又好吃。
Yòu piányi yòu hǎochī.
Both cheap and delicious.

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Learning Chinese - Narrative Story Ideas -

2008-12-02T08:07:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Narrative Story Ideas
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md1101 -

I'm currently racking my brain trying to come up with an idea for a narrative i have to write for
a chinese assignment. if you're bored then how about some ideas? it could be on anything. but the
teacher wants something along the lines of a story about a single character then a surprise at the
end like descriptions of your mother being terrible to you then you realising she did what she did
because she loved you. of course something more unique and imo less crap than that but along those
lines would be better.

i used to be okay at these sorts of things but have been studying engineering for so long now that
i've become less 'arts' orientated...

im going to cheat and ask for ideas. it needs to be about 1000 words. simple ideas is all i need.
its not due for a while so im just thinking at the moment...

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melonqq -

1000 words in Chinese??Isn't it?
Do you like watching film?There is many plot you can use for reference.
Like Chinese film<不能说的秘密> and American TV Show ...
You can use your imagination make the story more spectacular and the character more lively.You
know,Not only the character is your mom or people who you know well,but also can be a person you
created.I speak Chinese,My English is not very well,some times I don't know how to describe the
things well,please never mind.

xiaojiang216 -

Maybe you could write about a kid going through the dreaded process of college admissions, and in
the end he gets into college!

I have no idea why I was thinking of that though....

加油！

md1101 -

college admissions.. yeah thats a good idea. ill think about that. he can be from a real poor
family too to make things more interesting.

and ill start thinking of some tv shows i could copy too melonqq. also, im happy your first post
on these forums was a reply to me!

skylee -

Or maybe the kid does not get what he wants, but then another door opens so he ends up better than
getting in college.

md1101 -

well, in the end i wrote about some kid in his last year of school who always studied hard but had
a love of football. his parents wanted him to focus more on study so he had to give up a lot but
in the end they still wanted him to quit the football and even hid an offer from a local club that
came for him. he commits suicide in the end morbid i know but the teacher did ask for a shock at
the end. maybe its even a bit cliche. will post the story once i get my marks back. (not before or
my teacher will accuse me of cheating..)

muyongshi -

What if she doesn't think to check until after grading it?

yonglin -

Quote:

What if she doesn't think to check until after grading it?

Do you think that any teacher would actually care that much?

The only that could happen is whilst reading, the marker finds that some particular sentence or
chunk of text just seems too good to be written by the person who wrote the essay, so then she
would type that phrase into google/baidu/etc. I highly doubt that anyone would care to think about
their students' essays once they have been returned.

LiYuanXi -

Yonglin: Is that your photo as the avatar? you look like a friend of mine!

md1101: Too bad I saw this thread too late cuz I got lots of weird ideas for this kind of things.

Luobot -

Quote:

Too bad I saw this thread too late cuz I got lots of weird ideas for this kind of things.

.

No problem. Just start another thread and ask people to contribute a sentence or so in Chinese to
a story about whatever.

... Or contribute in English for others to translate to Chinese.

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Chinese Character - 小小说 / Chinese short short stories -

2008-11-24T08:04:00.001-08:00

> Chinese Culture > Art and Literature
小小说 / Chinese short short stories
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student -

I recently became aware of the genre of the Chinese short short story,

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/20...24_168556.html

and

http://www.las.iastate.edu/newnews/mu0823.shtml

Such stories, typically about 1500 characters long, are apparently quite popular now.

Does anyone have favorites of this genre?

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student -

Here is a very short example,

Quote:

“书法家” 司玉笙

书法比赛会上，人们围住前来观看的高局长，请他留字。
“写什么呢?”高局长笑眯眯地提起笔，歪着头问。
“写什么都行。写局长最得心应手的好字吧。”
“那我就献丑了。”高局长沉吟片刻，轻抖手腕落下笔去。立刻，两个劲秀�
��大字从笔端跳到宣纸上：“同意”。
人群里发出啧啧的惊叹声。有人大声嚷道：“请再写几个!”
高局长循声望去，面露难色地说：
“不写了吧——能写好的就数这两个字……”
(选自《世界华文微型小说大成》)

frankcupid -

it makes me think of a joke
局长有三个字写的最好就是“不同意” 因为每天都要批示很多文件
看完之后写上“同意”或者“不同意” 久而久之这三个字越写越漂亮
一次日本举办的书法家交流会大家都推荐这位局长参加于是他就去了
会上人们都听说这位局长有一笔漂亮的书法可谁也没见过
结果有人提议他现场写一副字局长很为难但又不好推辞于是急中生智
写了一首古体诗内容是说日语里面有很多汉字但意思又不一样

同字不同意,
同意不同字。
字同意不同,
意同字不同。

众人皆拍手称赞

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Pnyin - Thank you notes? -

2008-11-23T08:06:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Thank you notes?
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student -

I was invited to dinner by an eminent, elderly chinese gentleman and his wife. The dinner was
excellent, and I would like to send him a brief thank you note in Chinese. I realize that I do not
know the proper format, honorifics, etc. for such a note. Any help would be appreciated!

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HSK - 土袍? -

2008-11-21T08:03:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
土袍?
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hanshoff22 -

I heard this word 土炮 (tu3pao4) on a Chinese "Idol" program.

the sentence from the subtitles was:
我其實在講土炮應該是講你

I looked it up in both Wenlin and MDBG and didn't find it

so I guess it's slang?

what does it mean?

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muyongshi -

http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/29401532.html?si=2

This may or may not have anything to do with your question. Not sure the context of the TV program
so can't say for sure... But it seems close as it has to do with performing...

skylee -

土炮 in cantonese can mean very strong local alcohol.

But this may also be helpful -> http://baike.baidu.com/view/55842.htm

Quote:

原指没有过滤嘴的香烟，后来泛指一些没见识，没见过什么世面的人。

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Learning Chinese - Random new word of the day - Page 30 -

2008-11-20T08:04:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary
Random new word of the day
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Page 30 of 32 First < 202829 30 3132 >

monto -

火星文：
A set of jargons Chinese youngsters use on the net, a mixture of letters, numbers, symbols, and
characters or parts of characters of Chinese, Japanese and Korean.

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roddy -

I came across that one recently too, in 炙手可热.

atitarev -

I have to say this.

Perhaps you know the "Chinese" soup called 罗宋汤, beetroot and cabbage are some of the main
ingredients. It sounds like [Luósòng tāng], which is "Russian soup" or "borshch".

The normal word for Russia is 俄罗斯 [Éluósī] but in this particular case, it's a
transliteration from the English (音译) "Russian". The Russian words for Russian and Russia are
quite different: русский (russky) ("u" as in "put", not "but"!), Россия (Rossiya).

There is a Chinese word borrowed from Russian: хлеб (khleb or khlyeb) -> 列巴 (lièbā) -
"bread". It's used in Harbin, Dalian and some other North-Eastern Chinese cities.

rob07 -

佞人 (ning4ren2), sycophant.

rob07 -

I like this one - 丘八 qiu1ba1, soldier. Individually the characters mean "hillock" and "eight",
but together they mean soldier because together they look like 兵.

imron -

It's worth noting though that this is a derogatory term for solider.

Lu -

Here they say 阿兵哥 a1bing1ge1 for soldier (not derogatory as far as I can tell).

New word I came across yesterday: what is 九兆萬 (also written 九萬兆)? I started counting
zeroes, but it does not mean 90 quadrillion. No, some journalist was too creative, and coined this
word for Ma Yingjiu, his vice-president Xiao Wanchang, and his premier Liu Zhaoxuan.

roddy -

荷尔蒙, héěrméng, loan word for hormone, which is more often 激素

rob07 -

笄之年 (ji1 zhi1 nian2) - an old term for the time at which a girl comes of age. The 笄 was a
type of hairpin which was used to tie up an adult woman's hair and started to be used at the
earlier of her turning 15 or getting engaged to be married.

randall_flagg -

so what is the difference between 炙 and 燔 both mentioned in this thread.

鱼饵 yu2er3, fishing bait (the stuff you put on the hook)

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Study Chinese - Database Error - Page 2 -

2008-11-19T08:04:00.001-08:00

> Announcements > Bug Reports / Help
Database Error
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Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >

roddy -

I've made a few changes to try and stop this happening - had the hosting company up the number of
connections to the database we have, and also banned a few of the less friendly search engine
indexers (the kind that think it's amusing to download the entire site in five minutes and then
send us one visitor per year by way of a thank you).

I'm also going to be keeping a closer eye on the error reports now, but if you have any issues do
let me know - squeaky wheels get the oil, after all.

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muyongshi -

Great! So what are these search engines?? I think I want to try one out (j/k)

roddy -

Myriam, first, please stop making posts and then deleting them. Secondly, the forum is working
perfectly.

gato -

"Database Error" just now.

roddy -

Consider yourself honored - we're averaging 20 a day on over 200,000 (edit: Have no idea where I
got that number from. Nearer 40,000 including bots) page views, not everyone is lucky enough to
see one . . .

muyongshi -

So I get most of the luck huh???

roddy -

Yep.

Number of database errors has dropped significantly since I made the changes mentioned above - I
haven't seen a single one. I get emailed reports, we're averaging 20 a day, all due to server
restarts. I do see timeouts now and then, but I seem to get those on a number of websites,
particularly international ones and I wouldn't be too worried unless I was getting consistent
reports from people closer to the server - ie, the US or UK (server is in Manchester).

roddy -

Banned a few more IP ranges after a couple of hiccups this evening . . .

muyongshi -

I was wondering if more changes were coming after I got those hiccups...thanks roddy!

roddy -

Do flag them up when you notice them, at least if it lasts more than a minute or two - although I
do get emails every time there's an error they get filtered into a 'don't need to read' folder and
I'm not necessarily checking that every day.

That said, when you do get a database error message, don't sit there pressing F5 - that ain't
helping

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Learn Chinese online - Rate next Australia Prime Minister's Mandarin - Page 4 -

2008-11-18T08:05:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Rate next Australia Prime Minister's Mandarin
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imron -

Quote:

The election is today, so we'll soon know if I lied in the thread title.

Looks like you called it right. Big swing to Labor by the looks of things, and John Howard may
even lose his seat of Bennelong!

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rob07 -

Yes, Howard has just conceded. Rudd is PM.

md1101 -

So I won't have to move to China for good after all. Praise the heavens

atitarev -

Congratulations to all who voted for Labour. We won!

muyongshi -

I like how there is a distinctly asian face in behind Rudd. Very appropriate for this discussion.

Josh2007 -

Newsflash: 25 November 2027

President Kevin Rudd of the Republic of Australia addressed his nation in Mandarin--the official
language of the Southern Continent for 10 years now since the Constitutional Reforms--and
officially communicated the result of the recent referendum. Australia, 澳洲省 as it is to be
known, will become the 32nd province of the People's Republic of China from January 1st 2028.
President Rudd said the move made sense given the economic rise of Asia and the demographic
changes in Australia, which particularly accelerated following his election as prime minister 20
years ago. The abolition of the AUS$ in 2025 and the adoption of the renminbi had provided the
basis for Australia's prosperity said Mr Rudd, or Rudd Xiansheng as he likes to be known, despite
the debate over whether a modern nation should really have a Communist mass murderer on its
banknotes. Rudd Xiansheng claims to be interested in environment issues, but the rump
conservatives grouped round the Liberals, mainly attracting support in Queensland and Western
Australia (to be relabelled prefectures rather than states in the new Chinese setup) continue to
argue that allowing the population to balloon up to 60 million was beyond the continent's carrying
capacity.

"Aozhou has severed links with its past," Rudd Xiansheng said. "The 20 million Anglos in Australia
have to embrace an Asian future. We are no longer an English-speaking nation: 35 million of us are
ethnic-Chinese, and Mandarin is the language of the future." Rudd Xiansheng outlined plans
allowing companies to discipline recalcitrant Anglos who refused to learn Chinese - apparently
claiming it was too hard or --more darkly--whispering in corners that English ought to be
Australia's official language.

Aozhou's future was clear since the 2012 referendum that abolished the monarchy, said Mr Rudd.
Labour politicians had occupied the presidency since, forming the "natural party of government."
Rudd Xiansheng has refused to quash speculation that the Labour Party will merge with Zhong Gong
in 2028.

Rudd Xiansheng delivered a stern message to the Freemantle rioters who had protested against the
referendum result. The Aozhou Republican Security, the Mandarin-speaking force accused of
brutality towards Anglo Australians, had been authorized to use rubber bullets against the
rioters. Mr Rudd promised that welfare benefits would continue to be available to Anglos who were
not fluent in Mandarin and therefore unable to work in the new Aozhou. Ultimately the refusal to
learn Chinese was prejudice, he said, which would get you nowhere in the PRC's new southern
province.

The Republic of Xin Xilan, like its Asian neighbours Singapore and Aozhou a largely ethnic Chinese
republic, is considering an application to join the PRC. The sticking point seem to be Maori
objection over China's plans to class them as part of the Gaoshanzu.

Josh2007 -

A little bit of fun in my last post!

md1101 -

lol! not bad josh.

imron -

Quote:

A little bit of fun in my last post!

See also here.

roddy -

Quote:

Originally Posted by md1101

So I won't have to move to China for good after all. Praise the heavens

Yeah, everyone here is pretty glad about that too

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Chinese School - gym around blcu? -

2008-11-17T08:05:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
gym around blcu?
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andrea28 -

can anyone tell me the address of hao shan gym in wudaokou? i can't find it anywhere and I dont'
have the number! it's supposed to be the cheapest, i checked nirvana and it's 500 a month!! thats'
very expensive and I wanted something cheaper, if anyone knows a cheap gym in wudaokou besides hao
shan please tell me~! thanks!

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victoria.m -

isn't there one on the blcu campus?

andrea28 -

apparently that one is 300 a month and the hao sha gym has everything and is only 150 a month so I
am trying to find it!

redpixel -

There's a gym called Fusion on campus in the stadium (and one in xijiao hotel) but it's expensive.

If you're ok for a short bike ride from Wudaokou there's a gym right at the Dongwangzhuang North
gate (I think) called Saikang... I paid something like 700 for a 6 month card there and the
facilities were good.

juhuacha -

the gym on campus is slightly crap (at least, it was 4 years ago) but it is easily accessible,
which is a huge bonus, especially in the middle of winter. but I'd only recommend it if you're
actually living on the campus.

againstwind -

Saikang(SK) is ok. I have been there in the recent year.

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Learn Chinese - What is the best translation of shénme? -

2008-11-16T08:02:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
What is the best translation of shénme?
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Chinese Learner -

Hi,

I'm transcribing some pinyin into mandarin to teach myself to write a few basic simplified words,
but I keep coming across a several different versions.

Can some please tell me what is the correct translation of 'shénme'?

Nǐ yào shénme? -> What do you want?

Is it:

你要什么?

or

你要甚么?

Or have I got it completely wrong?

By the way does anyone know of a translation website on the net that translates several words at
the same time into characters rather than a single one word a a go, so that I can input all the
'stock' phrases? Free or otherwise?

Thank you!

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imron -

Quote:

By the way does anyone know of a translation website on the net that translates several words at
the same time into characters rather than a single one word a a go

See google translate.

leosmith -

Quote:

What is the best translation of shénme?

I'm torn. Ok, 2 answers.
1. Yes
2. Who's on first?

Lu -

什么 is the completely simplified version, 甚麼 the completely traditional one. Both are
correct, and it seems combinations of simp and trad are also widely used, but am not sure of the
rules for this.

musingpuppy -

Usually 甚 means "what". "你做甚？" means "what are you doing?"

Lu -

Quote:

"你做甚？" means "what are you doing?"

Don't you mean 啥, as in 你做啥? I don't think I've ever seen 甚 used like this.

Bibiy -

two versions have the same meaning .Basically,they have no difference .you can use both,but
"什么" is more often in common life.

musingpuppy -

Lu,

For example: 这样的不孝的儿子养他做甚！

Bibiy -

i think "这样的不孝儿子养他干嘛"is better,because the "做甚"is usually used in
dialect.

文言訓開班 -

I'm of the impression that they're considered different tones: 什 shen2, 甚 shen4. I can't
imagine it makes much difference which is spoken, as I imagine it's a phonetic rule that controls
how the sound comes out: for some speakers, it's the first sometimes, the second others. In
Cantonese, the difference is bigger though: 什 sap6, 甚 zhen3.

Some words take only one of the two: 甚至

They mean the same thing, though, which comes across better in 什 - many. 甚至 means something
like 'even as much as'.

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Chinese Pinyin - Wikipedia blocked, again. - Now unblocked! -

2008-11-15T08:06:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology
Wikipedia blocked, again. - Now unblocked!
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sthubbar -

Looks like the Great Firewall of China has decided to disallow access to Wikipedia, again. I was
just surfing the site yesterday, and maybe this morning. Now it only seems reachable through a
proxy. This is from Beijing. How about other areas of China?

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Xiao Kui -

It might still be early to say whether it's blocked or just a slow connection speed and therefore
timing out. There are some sites that I know for a fact are not blocked but i have to access via
proxy because they time out unless you use one. At night the problem seems to be worse when there
is a lot more net traffic.

I'm experiencing the same thing. Accessed without a proxy this morning but now I can't. (location:
Kunming)

dalaowai -

Stopped working in Shanghai yesterday as well.

Nothing agitates me more than getting a page cannot be displayed error due to the friendly
firewall.

Crivens200 -

Blocked here again in deepest jiangsu province.

liuzhou -

And in Guangxi

roddy -

As danwei points out, they've blocked Wikipedia and unblocked Typepad. This is completely logical,
and a great step forward on the road to a harmonious socialist society.

Sarah_chen -

i have been tried to visit Wikipedia one year ago, that couldnt work at the time ,and now the same

madizi -

The same in Hunan and probably all over China.

tai4ji2x -

are people able to get through via gladder or other plugins?

Prodigal Son -

The incompetency of whoever manages mainland access to "banned sites" is really unbelievable.
Blocked for a year, unblocked; blocked, unblocked.

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Learning Mandarin - Help Translating Jade Stamp -

2008-11-14T08:04:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Help Translating Jade Stamp
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cpellp -

My Mom and I found this jade stamp in some boxes my Dad had been storing for a long time, and are
wondering what the characters mean and/or what the stamp may have been used for. Can anyone
provide any assistance with translating? Please let us know, we appreciate any help, please
respond to thread and/or e-mail cpellp@bellsouth.net. THANKS so much.

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skylee -

The photo is upside down. And since it is a stamp, it would be much easier if you would just stamp
it on a piece of paper and let us see the paper instead.

This is what I see -> if you flip the mirror verion of the picture upside down, then I see either
"KUK" or "KJK" on top. It could be an abbreviation or the initials of a name. There are two
characters below. The one on the left is "凱" (pronounced Kai) (the "山" on top left corner
looks like an "E"). I am not sure about the charcter on the right. I guess it is the
transliteration of a name.

JimmySeal -

I believe the character on the right is 拉 (la).

Here is an auto-generated seal script rendering of 凱拉

madizi -

It is written (if I'm not wrong) in 甲骨文 (jia gu wen) script which was used (again if I'm not
wrong) before 2nd cetury BC. This script is often used for stamps that tourists buy (see my stamp
in avatar).

The letters are KJK. Do you guess what they mean? Maybe initials of your fathers name? If this is
so than it would be easier to dechiper characters.

raoming -

it could not be 甲骨文.
may be it mean: 凯拉
oh，i see.it was come from an English name which translate to be 凯拉

cpellp -

I tried to ink the stamp, the ink I have isn't very good, will try to get a better image using
seal wax, but the image that Jimmy Seal generated does seem accurate, except one symbol does seem
to be slanted a bit. Does everyone think then that the characters are a translation of the
initials "KJK", which are the three initials (they aren't too clear in the attached inks stamp
image).

THANKS for everyone's help. I do find the stamp entriging. Does anyone know how these stamps are
used, or were used? Were they perhaps used to seal envelopes?

The "ink" rendering is attached.

Lu -

As you may know, Chinese does not have an alphabet like European languages have, so no characters
can be the rendering of initials. It's more likely that this is a transliteration of your father's
name. And I suppose the initials are his initials?

Such seals, also known as chops, were (and still are sometimes) used the same way a signature is
used in the West: at the bottom of documents or letters, to show who wrote (or painted) a certain
thing, and let others know it was genuine. I have a similar chop for my bank account in Taiwan.
They also make nice exotic souvenirs: get a transliteration of your name in Chinese characters,
and have it carved on a seal. My guess is that is how your father got this seal.

skylee -

Jimmy, what programme is it that does the auto-generation thing?

cpellp -

I would very much like to know what language this signature stamp uses.

Also, one last question, if everyone doesn't mind. If one did assume that the characters do
translate the initials, as someone previously pointed out, it is probably not a direct translation
for letters, one for one.

Would the translation be based on then?
* How the initials sound?
* Or how the name, said completely outloud, sounds?

OR:

perhaps a translation of what the name might mean? And if so, is there a meaning to these
characters?

I am sorry to ask so many questions, I do find these few characters and this little stamp,
intriging. My father was a very quiet person, didn't travel outside the US much, had very few
friends. I suspect he acquired this stamp when he bought or purchased a lot of used cameras, which
he was known to do.

skylee -

The initials sound like "KJK".

The characters are pronounced "Kai La". "Kai" rhymes with "why".

The meaning of the two charcters -

凱 (left) -> http://cdict.giga.net.tw/?q=%B3%CD
拉 (right) -> http://cdict.giga.net.tw/?q=%A9%D4

The two characters are probably used for transliteration, i.e. to convey the pronunciation of a
name.

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Learning Chinese - Traditional and Simplified: together or separate? -

2008-11-13T08:03:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Traditional and Simplified: together or separate?
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OneEye -

I'd like to learn both forms of characters. My priority is on Simplified Chinese, but I'd like to
be able to understand Traditional Chinese as well. My question is, should I focus on Simplified
for now and learn Traditional later, or would it make more sense to learn both forms
simultaneously? Any thoughts or anyone who has experience with this? Thanks in advance.

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Lu -

I wouldn't learn simp first and trad later, I think the other way around is easier.

Perhaps you could concentrate on traditional, and take a quick look at the simplified of the
characters you learn. When you have a certain basis in trad, you can spend some time on simp, I
think leaning simp will be fairly easy by that time.

Good luck!

gato -

One of the most common question asked on this forum.

A search came up with these threads. Have a read and come back if you have any further questions.

http://www. /showth...ht=traditional
Learning Simplified and Traditional Together

http://www. /showth...ht=traditional
Simplified vs. Traditional

http://www. /showth...ht=traditional
Switching from simplified to traditional

http://www. /showth...ht=traditional
Do you prefer traditional or simplified characters?

http://www. /showth...ht=traditional
Traditional & Simplified Characters

http://www. /showth...ht=traditional
Simplified VS Traditional Characters

http://www. /showth...ht=traditional
Simplifed / Traditional

haton -

Hello OneEye,

One aspect of the question is: how important is learning Chinese for you? and how much effort are
you ready to put in?
If you view it as a hobby or a long-term investment to "speak Chinese", without specific needs to
make business in Hong Kong and Taiwan, as is my case, I'd recommend starting with Simplified.

Simplified characters are significantly simpler. And learning Chinese in itself is so difficult
that I'd definitely put learning Traditional characters in second priority.

atitarev -

The majority of adult Westerners have big difficulties in really mastering Chinese characters for
a number of reasons, especially if they do it on their own but classes must also be oriented for
writing characters. Writing Hanzi is a different skill from speaking, typing and even reading in
Chinese, so unless you are passionate about learning to write characters and spend a lot of time
doing it, the progress may be slow. For the same reason, Westerners often choose to learn or start
with the simplified characters, even in Hong Kong, as I recently found out! Nothing will stop you
to familiarise with the traditional or change to the traditional later. I managed to go through 2
volumes of New Practical Chinese Reader (vol. 2 and 3) using both simplified and traditional
versions but for recognition only, I can't boast I mastered both scripts.

I started a simple reader I got from a Taiwanese colleague - the challenge is after a long usage
of simplified characters, pinyin and horizontal to use traditional, zhuyin fuhao (bopomofo) and a
vertical script.

It is possible to learn both but I don't know if you can do it over a long period.

OneEye -

gato,

Thanks for those links, they were interesting. I didn't mean to bother with another similar
question.

I'm not planning on doing any business using Mandarin, but if I did it would probably be in
mainland China. I also plan on traveling in China, but I may go to Hong Kong too. I think I will
go with what seems to be the general consensus (from this and other threads) and learn Simplified
first and then traditional later. That's what I've been doing, but I was just considering adding
Traditional characters to the mix.

And yes, writing is the hard part. It's difficult to make myself sit down to practice writing.
Maybe I'll start writing each character whenever it comes up for review in my SRS program. I can
check myself against the stroke animations in Wenlin or ZDT. Of course, I've said this before, but
I've never made myself do it. We'll see.

Thanks for the help!

haton -

Hello OneEye,

I sympathize with your difficulty in learning and retaining characters!
I wrote myself 2 tools that might help you: a dictionary and a character training game, found at:
http://ehaton.blogspot.com

wushijiao -

Quote:

should I focus on Simplified for now and learn Traditional later

Yes, I think.

I think that once you are to the point that you can read one or the other more or less with few
problems, it isn't to hard to switch to read the other. Rather than worry too much about which
script to learn, I think it is best to learn one really well, then make the switch.

For example, I used to have problems reading stuff in traditional, but after a while it became
easy.

Similarly, I lent a book about the events in Beijing in 1989, in traditional, to one of my
American friends in Shanghai, who primarily learned all his Chinese by himself on the Mainland and
who could read newspapers in simplified with the help of a dictionary. At first he said the
traditional was too hard. But I told him that he only needed a bit of practice. Eventually he said
that it really wasn't as hard as he had first thought, and he even became a big fan of tradtional
characters is the end.

However, I think that if you are in the process of learning characters (say, if you know 1000 or
so) there really isn't much point in learning both systems at the same time. At least from my
point of view, it seems like it would be too confusing.

zozzen -

Quote:

I wouldn't learn simp first and trad later, I think the other way around is easier.

Perhaps you could concentrate on traditional, and take a quick look at the simplified of the
characters you learn. When you have a certain basis in trad, you can spend some time on simp, I
think leaning simp will be fairly easy by that time.

Did you try traditional first and simplified later? In my experience, it takes only a few weeks
and so easy. ( most chinese speakers should have either one experience only, so i just don't know
which way is better)

tanhql -

to some native chinese, it's easy to make the switch. i learnt simplified chinese in school, and
yet i can read taiwanese traditional subtitles without major problems (but writing is out of
question, meaning i can only recognize traditional script, but can only write the simple and most
common ones). but some of my friends cannot even read the simplest of traditional characters, to
my surprise.

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Chinese Studies - Absolute beginner -

2008-11-12T08:02:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Absolute beginner
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chi_ren -

... well almost. Hi guys!! i am starting my degree in Modern & classical Chinese in September, and
would like some advice as to where to start, before I get there. I spent 3 months in Shanghai
earlier this year. so its not all totally new to me, but I have never formally learnt any Mandarin
AT ALL! So where to begin? (I know this is a broad, vague question, that might be difficult to
answer, but suggestions are very appreciated!) Thanks!

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Lu -

I'm assuming you're going to take this degree in a university not in China. Does the university
offer the classes of your program at your level, ie complete beginner? If so, don't worry, just
make sure you go with the program, try to never miss class, do your homework, and you should be
fine for quite some time. That's really the best advise I can think of for your situation. If you
are worried, maybe you can call the people of the program and ask what they will expect of you.

The only thing that might be useful to do in advance is buying a good dictionary. For classical
Chinese, I'd recommend the Mathews (big, black and Wade-Giles, but good for wenyan), for modern
Chinese the bilingual Contemporary Chinese Dictionary, or else the Far East Chin-Eng dictionary.
Other people will have other recommendations.

I hope this helps, if you have more specific questions, feel free to post them.

chi_ren -

Thanks so much for your reply!!

Well, I;m going to SOAS (in London) and yes, they teach from scratch, so I know I'll be OK so long
as I put the work in. I've bought two books from the reading list, and I'm going to check out some
dictionaries, including your suggestions. Many thanks!

Lu -

SOAS, oh wow, I'm jealous now... :-) Make sure to check out their library, I heard it's really
great.

chi_ren -

haha, yea i checked it out already, its AMAZING! can't wait!

Ari 桑 -

I agree, a good, highly interactive class is by far the best way to begin. Once you absorb the
basics, things get fun, and you get to start exploring on your own. But a good teacher is where to
start.

lozolo -

u'd better make a friend who from china,begin with talking,then u will know what should study

OneEye -

The most effective thing I've come across in studying the characters is using an SRS program. SRS
stands for Spaced Repetition System and is like flashcards on steroids. This is a better
explanation than I could hope to give.

I've been copying and pasting the most common 3000 characters, their pronunciations, and meanings
into Mnemosyne and the program automatically chooses when to bring each character up again based
on how well I've done on that character in the past. It also automatically makes me learn new
characters at a rate of 20 per day (or whatever I choose to set it to), provided I actually make
myself do so. Very easy to do, and very effective.

madizi -

SOAS. I enyy you. (for others, check this out: http://www.soas.ac.uk/)

It is also useful to write characters on a paper. This way you memorize them better and also learn
how to write them and which parts (radicals or phonetics) are combined together in particular
character.

chi_ren -

Thanks for your answers guys! I'm defintiely gonna check out that SRS thing, never heard of it
before!

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Learn Mandarin online - "Monster Packs" for mobile phones - Chinese language -

2008-11-11T08:04:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology
"Monster Packs" for mobile phones - Chinese language
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atitarev -

I tried in vain to reflesh language packs to my mobile and tried a different (also risky) approach
- I re-flexed my Motorola with a Monster Pack and isntalled some new languages - Russian for
examples. I was to put it on in SMS but I couldn't see it in the sent items.

I wonder if anyone had luck with a "Monster Pack" to install Chinese input on a Western mobile
phone.

Please share your experience. Will pinyin input work OK?

I used RSD Lite 3.2 provided by Shadowdh.

My phone is a Motorola Razr V3x.

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atitarev -

Is there a point to install Chinese support in Australian networks (I am with Three)? Will
characters be transmitted OK?

I had some doubts since I installed this Monster Pack, was able to type in Russian (saw the
characters allright) but the other party got one blank instead of the Russian test word I sent. I
couldn't see the Cyrillic letters in the Sent Items either

dalaowai -

My guess is that both phones would need to have the language packs installed for it to work.

I'm in China and I would text message french messages to my friends. Some of my friends were able
to receive these characters é è ê. Other friends phones didn't have french support would get
square boxes instead.

I imagine it's the same deal with russian or chinese.

atitarev -

Thanks, Dalaowai. I might have a dodgy Russian support, if I can't see it properly in the "sent
messages" or it is not supported by the carrier.

I am in the search now of the Monster Pack to restore my "Three Australia" settings for Internet
connections, etc.

Shadowdh -

Chinese characters are transmitted no problem at all, its just the phone that limits the ability
to read/send... I know I had to do a little seem editing (mucking around in the belly of the phone
os as far as I know) to see the characters... I got some help on the forums (motorola) and it was
quite easy... I text in Chinese all the time now (ok bad Chinese) as I have some Chinese friends
over here at the moment and some of my class mates can send and receive Chinese too...

Just a quick note... I always back up my phone before I do anything to it (well now anyway) as you
never know when you might need to recover it...

atitarev -

Thanks, Shadowdh, trouble is I don't know how to back it up apart from phone numbers. I used a
detailed method to restore settings for Three Australia but it didn't work. I can use the phone
but I can't surf the web, no big deal.

Still need to install the Chinese language pack. It's a pity monster packs tie your phone to
another carrier, even if you use your own SIM card, you may lose something.

Shadowdh -

No probs... I will hunt through my folders as I have a back up program somewhere and will send it
to you (I dont think its that large a file, but it may take a couple of days as I need to fix my
modem/wireless router thingummy... (its playing up on me)... You can get monster packs that are
not branded... also found some other moto forums...

http://www.vxxxstuff.com/forums/index.php?

http://www.motox.info/index.php?

dont know if they can help but any info is good I guess...

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Chinese Mandarin - Today I saw a rainbow plunging into the ocean - Page 2 -

2008-11-10T08:05:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Today I saw a rainbow plunging into the ocean
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Myriam -

Quote:

I think 倾没 would be better.

Anybody else thinks likewise? I still don't know how to write my sentence. Maybe the use of
"plunging" is a bit awkward, but I can't say "Today I saw a rainbow diving into the ocean" can I?

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chenpv -

Hmm.... how about, 我今天看見一道彩虹傾入大海。I don't think I have ever seen so
large a rainbow that overwhelms, as suggested by 沒, a sea or stretches far into 洋. Anyway,
maybe such big rainbows exist.

Myriam -

I like your suggestion : 倾入 seems better than 倾没 (maybe because 没 has the meaning of
"inundate"?)
我今天看見一道彩虹倾入大海。
It did stretched "far into 洋", it's just a case of finding the right place + some drizzling rain
+ shining sun.

chenpv -

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myriam

maybe because 没 has the meaning of "inundate"?

Yeah, in terms of my limited understandings of both languages.

yingying -

how about：今天我看到一道彩虹延伸到大海。

heifeng -

for a measure word I actually like 一弧彩虹..but I don't know if that would make sense for
that to plunge then...also (since I feel like killing time today) 今天sounds a bit plain to me
since now there is such a huge discussion on how to say plunge...今日，今朝...actually I
dunno...I guess it depends on what time you saw it too...leave it to the native speakers I guess.

___________________
Disclamer:
Hi, I like to complicate matters and throw in my unwanted 2cents. sorry.

semantic nuance -

Hmmm, first of all, I'd like to say the verb '傾' is not closely related to the action--'plunge
into'.
Unless, you meant the rainbow sort of slanted down to the ocean.
Did that rainbow fall all of a sudden into sea? Or, did it gradually submerge into sea?
If it is latter, I will say:我今天看見一道彩虹(漸漸)隱沒於海洋裡.
You may check this link:http://140.111.34.46/cgi-bin/dict/Ge...ueryString=傾

Hope it helps!

Semantic Nuance

roddy -

Fixed the problem Mr Nuance was having and put his post back in order. Server issue, won't happen
again until the next time.

Myriam -

Quote:

Originally Posted by heifeng

for a measure word I actually like 一弧彩虹..but I don't know if that would make sense for
that to plunge then...

Heifeng, the logics of your sentence suggests that the measure word you chose changes the nature
of 彩虹, making it unfit for plunging, not that a rainbow can't and won't ever be able to
"plunge".
Is 弧 a measure word for 彩虹?
Semantic nuance suggested "slant down" towards the ocean but I prefer a word that describes the
action of diving because "slant down" doesn't have the dynamics contained in "dive" or "plunge" :
wow...I feel like I'm being bullied by people who absolutely don't want me to have a rainbow
diving into the ocean!! I don't find math900's comments funny anymore!

Chenpv, I don't need this kind of comment : "Yeah, in terms of my limited understandings of both
languages." I know you don't mean you have a limited understanding of your mother tongue so,
please, if you could refrain from doing that in the future I'd be much obliged to you. too.

h.way -

It should be translated inot
一道彩虹跃然海上

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Chinese Character - East 3rd Ring New Apartment Room in downtown CBD beside Carrefour, Walmart, Metro -

2008-11-09T08:05:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Classifieds
East 3rd Ring New Apartment Room in downtown CBD beside Carrefour, Walmart, Metro
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champson -

YouTube videos of the community &apartment building: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cun8gMwrSt8
Apartment of the Dutch living just below us (same layout of rooms):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS82OYhsZEY Our apartment is furnished in better conditions.

ROOMMATES: A young girl (SIEMENS formal staff) is living in the larger bedroom. An American couple
in the smaller room. Both are quiet, clean, non-smoking, easy to get along and proficient in
English.

1km south of Central Business District of Beijing. Beside metro line 10, Peking Opera Troupe,
Carrefour (France, 5 minutes’ walk), Walmart (2 stops), Century Mart(Shanghai), B&Q(UK), KFC,
Pizzahut, Origus, Hosa Fitness Club, Huateng Indoor Swimmers Club, 5 banks, post office &
hospitals, Marriot Hotel prime new site. Life convenience details at
http://homepage.sunrise.ch/mysunrise/liuchao/

My new apartment(constructed 2005.11) has 3 bedrooms; 2 Bathrooms; 1 Corridor; 3 Balconies; 1
Europe-style Kitchen. Total Space: 140 Square Meters. Living room+Balcony: 40 Sq. meters. Net
height: 2.8 meters. 26th floor. SONY TV35’’, SIEMENS fridge, LG air con, Brothers
treadmill(running fitness machine). 24-hour hot water, bath warmer bulbs, vacuum cleaner, dish
sterilizer, rice cooker, gas & electric ovens, DVD Hi-Fi set.

The room to let is the South Bedroom. Enjoys sunshine all through winter. Total space 13 Sq.
meters, decorated with the best Chinese brand of new air conditioner, a TV, ADSL broadband
Internet, wardrobe & book shelves, bed utilities, IKEA computer & writing desk. Month Rent: 1,900
Yuan or 240 US Dollars.

As landlord I will pay for you the high heating bill, property management bill, cable TV bill,
garbage disposal fee, and toilet water bill. So actually cheaper than some seemingly low
quotations. You need to pay your share of the drinking water, electricity and gas bill (normally
9USD/month).

CONTACT: Mobile: 13671267546 champson@tom.com Phone: 86081897. Before that please do visit
http://bjmsg.focus.cn/msgview/1295/1/69299910.html for room layout details or
http://house.focus.cn/group/photo.ph...album_id=88501 for recent PHOTOS of my apartment.

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HSK Exam - General information and opinions towards studying in china -

2008-11-08T08:04:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
General information and opinions towards studying in china
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mattt -

Basically what im looking to do is head to china hopefully in november to do 4 to 12 weeks of
study.

I just am getting a bit overwhelmed when I see all these websites than I hear their scams and all
sorts of other information. So far this is the only thing ive been able to source as credible.

I live in auckland newzealand which is currently in the process of slowly becoming a chinese
colony. So I'm really interested in learning mandarin proficiently to allow myself ot use it in my
audiology practise with patients.

Anyway I really just want general advice on where to look and how to apply. I'd prefer to make a
small excursion the end of this year. But I'm also looking at heading to china to study for a full
year probably next year.

thankyou in advance matthew

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Xiao Kui -

I've skimmed through some of the Chinese school websites in the past and this one seems practical
and geared towards professionals who are going to be in China for a limited time.
www.1monthchinese.com

I think the owner used to post a lot on this site. Maybe someone who's been there can comment on
whether it's worth it.

ciaocibai -

Hey, NZ represent!

Some of the universities have short term courses which seem to start kind of on a sliding
schedule, like once every four weeks or something like that. I'd recommend having a look around at
a few of them and seeing if you find any you like.

Is there any particular cities in China you'd like to study in, or you just pretty much looking
for a good course?

Anyway, i'm a kiwi as well, living in Wuhan at the moment. If I can help you, just send me a
message.

Good luck!

dstormy1 -

Ni hao,
I've just finished 3 months study at Keats Language School in Kunming. While I had taken Chinese
in the past I had forgotten most of what I had learned...at least I couldn't remember how to use
it.

At Keats I had 1:1 instruction. My teacher was a qualified and experienced Chinese teacher (Yunnan
Normal Univ grad). By the end of the 3 months I have been able to "flow" into conversations with
Chinese...like on the plane back home. While no one can become fluent in 3 months I can least get
beyond the basics and engage in actual conversations.

Many schools, especially Universities, want to only teach the proscribed curriculum of reading and
writing. Keats is a private school and much more flexible. Other private schools may also be as
flexible.

You DO need to decide if you want to learn all the Chinese language skills or just conversation
(speaking and listening). And, do you want to study in the summer or in a regular school semester
in fall or spring (this is important because most schools in China do not have summer classes for
"independent learners" just contracted programs with American and other foreign universities)?
And, do you want 1 on 1 classes or group classes (1:1 is a little more expensive but you progress
much much faster)? Last, I suggest you pick an area of the country you want to spend your time in.

I have had problems at schools in Yantai (Shangdong Prov) and at Yunnan University for summer
classes. That's why I chose Keats for summer study. I know personally Keats does no "scams" and
all the feedback I've heard about ECLAC in Kunming has also been favorable. ILI in Qingdao and TLI
in Dalian (and other locations) have had consistantly favorable reviews in this forum.

If you read the postings for this forum for the past few months you can learn a lot about other
schools as well. When you narrow down your choices you can send msgs to any of the other posters
who have studied at the school or in the area you are considering.

If you still are "boggled" in the mind over making a choice...then just go to Keats. Kunming is
also a great city to live in, study in, have fun in, etc. NOTE: I am not now nor have I ever been
employed by Keats! This is my own personal endorsement based soley on my experiences and those of
other students I've talked to.

Good luck,
Stormy

mattt -

For me getting to a high level of over all language is important not just conversational. This is
a large project linked to serious future business and life choices.

I've already through friends and various tutors learnt to read / write and comprehend literature
but obviously the speaking will never develop properly without immersion (although auckland is
slowly becoming beijing ;) )

I am looking at doing a stint over November or December start dates to around febuary that
is why I was looking at blcu's course as it had a 4 week period.

The key thing for me is to try and keep the costs of the excursion below 5 to 6000 and this is
just a temporary arrangement until I plan to study for 2 years in 2010.

Any further advice would be greatly appreciated!

shanghaikai -

University programs are usually the safest bet with regards to potential scams. Private businesses
(programs, language centers, etc.) are a lot more dicey...which I gather you've already figured
out and are wisely doing your research.

That said, if you'll be coming over to study for a longer period of time (in the future), you may
want to consider a university program supplemented with plenty of immersion and interaction with
native speakers. Perhaps throw in 1 on 1 tutoring for that too. Tutors are much easier to
evaluate, try, pay as you go, and fire than private language programs where they may force you to
sign on for a commitment with money down and sometimes the runaround if you feel you're not
getting what you expected.

However, for a shorter period of time, as you're hinting at for the end of this year, your
university options are limited. Hopefully, other readers will give you some good recommendations.
I like that university programs are fairly broad in what they teach you, but if you're dead set on
being very focused on what you want to learn language-wise, then usually only the private
businesses will be able to tailor to your needs.

Good luck and bring me some sheep!

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Chinese Pinyin - Sex and relations (for study purpose) - Page 2 -

2008-11-07T08:05:00.001-08:00

> Chinese Culture > Art and Literature
Sex and relations (for study purpose)
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yonitabonita -

It's possible that China Pop might be outdated, but then again, if you're interested in taking a
look at the historical development angle, it could be of use. I was interested in seeing the
historical development of sexual attitudes from Mao to current day China, so all books on the
topic were of interest to me regardless of dates.

Looking at advertising, magazine covers, billboards, TV ads would be an obvious way to go. If your
Chinese is up to it, a discourse analysis of Chinese Cosmo or other women's magazines would tell
you a whole lot about sex and sexuality in contemporary China. How do they describe the 'it' girl.
The consistent reference to 'sexiness' being the aim of womanhood suggests a whole lot too. Ditto
with men's magazines.

The topic : "Sex and Relations in China" strikes me as seriously broad and one that you could
write several PhDs about. What do you mean by 'sex', and 'relations', and 'China'? I don't mean to
sound like a Pol Sci 101 ass, but I think that you need to narrow these terms before you can get
something useful.

Just some thoughts.

Y

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jonaspony -

yeah... yonitabonita is right, a little definition of the topic would be handy.

Do you want to talk about the media's representation of the subject or the actual siuation? You
seem to be looking to rural China, so the media doesn't represent that reality. As far as the
relationship between sex and marriage goes, there was a large study by Higgins et al, Sex Roles,
Vol. 46, Nos. 3/4, February 2002, comparing UK and Chinese students' opinions. If you can't get a
copy I could email you one.

J

Qiuyue -

Thanks again folks!

Of course its a topic broad for enough for a dissertation. So are all topics. And some are even
too broad
The seminar will not be so academic, however. And it will be an opportunity for foreigners in
China to reflect on their own experiences in this matter.

madizi -

For a history of sex, see 'Sexual Life in Ancient China' by R. H. van Gulik. I think that although
it was written in 60s, you can still find some useful info for your topic. At least for
"Introduction" section of your seminar.

Justin Goldberg -

I think some Americans probably feel enlightened by the more open, less puritanical attitudes
about sexuality in Asia, eg. that sex is natural and enjoyable and a basic part of life and
health*; on the other hand there's also widespread restlessness and jumping from partner to
partner and a rebellion against the marriage for life ideal.

* is that right?

gato -

Quote:

I think some Americans probably feel enlightened by the more open, less puritanical attitudes
about sexuality in Asia, eg. that sex is natural and enjoyable and a basic part of life and
health*;

* is that right?

No, you are thinking of Holland.

jonaspony -

Quote:
I think some Americans probably feel enlightened by the more open, less puritanical attitudes
about sexuality in Asia, eg. that sex is natural and enjoyable and a basic part of life and
health*; - (can someone tell me how to make a quote box?)

Yes, yes, and but.... Are the two so mutually exclusive? If you study sexuality in China you will
find apparent contradictions. On a hutong wall in Beijing you might see a hand painted poster
encouraging women to assist in the husband's sexual health by regularly exercising the organ. The
Chinese are not necessarily 'puritanical' - after all, the word refers to the puritan forefathers
of the USA (and their friends in England). Certainly, they have been marriage centred, but because
of different causal factors.

If anything, the Chinese are more calculating about sexuality, more matter of fact in many ways.
Much of that is driven by sustained poverty. The means by which family wealth is divided, and
therefore dissipated, must be carefully controlled to avert disaster.

And, I find, Chinese women, particularly, are aware of the health benefits of intimacy - and that
this is in no way exclusively linked to sex. Same-sex friendships and provide a good deal of
intimacy. And, if you can imagine this or simply accept it, some of that intimacy is on a really
very deep, creative and sensual non-sexual basis. (Are you wondering what I mean and how I know?)

Personally, I think that the Chinese view of sex is, by and large, more complex, more reasonable
(in terms of its being 'part of life and health'), more economically sound, and more viable in
terms of the continuation of a cohesive society. The enormous underclass of prostitutes which has
emerged illustrates both the flexibility of the Chinese mind regarding sex and, unfortunately, the
sad fact that sex is not always good for the health. Real bummer way to finish... but there you go.

gato -

Quote:

And, if you can imagine this or simply accept it, some of that intimacy is on a really very deep,
creative and sensual non-sexual basis. (Are you wondering what I mean and how I know?)

I think Bill Clinton knows.

madizi -

Yea, jonaspony, I agree. It seems that only European culture had (and still has) problems with
sex. But this is because of its history after the fall of Roman Empire.

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Chinese Speaking - help:i can't see my post reply -

2008-11-06T08:02:00.001-08:00

> Announcements > Bug Reports / Help
help:i can't see my post reply
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bigfish -

same as the title

thanks!

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gougou -

Posts of new members are moderated. Thus, there are two possibilities why you can't see your posts:

a) The admins didn't have time yet to validate your post. If you wait a bit, they should show up.
b) Your post was not approved. That should only happen if it is spam or similar useless posts, so
in your case (unless you were posting spam ) I am not sure whether that is the problem.

Try again, and we will see whether it works this time!

ZFS-China -

How long does it take for posts to show up? When am I not considered a new member?

Best,
ZFS

gougou -

That depends on two things:

a) the quality of your posts and
b) the alertness of the admins.

For most posters, a) is not a problem. b) I will left uncommented...

PS: You're good to go.

ZFS-China -

Awesome, thanks

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Chinese Pinyin - Chinese magazines - recommendations? - Page 2 -

2008-11-05T08:06:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Resources and General Study Issues
Chinese magazines - recommendations?
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gougou -

limaygolf, and also Raye, it would help if you could explain to people what's so good about the
magazines you recommend. For an example, have a look at wushijiao's post above!

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skylee -

I've come across this staff magazine "Word Power / 文訊" which I find interesting. It is
published by the HK government department responsible for languages/translation and covers
different topics mainly on the use of the Chinese language. Being a staff magazine it is fairly
easy to read. But as you can expect, it is in traditional Chinese. There are also a few columns
written in English in each issue.

The electronic versions of the magazine can be found here ->
http://www.csb.gov.hk/english/publication/2006.html

My recommendation obviously does not meet the Admin's requirement in #11, but I hate it when
people tell me what / how to write.

gougou -

Quote:

My recommendation obviously does not meet the Admin's requirement in #11

Actually I think you're recommendation is great! You describe what's in the magazine, and I'm able
to decide whether I'm interested in a matter of seconds.

I am sure that the magazines that Raye and limaygolf suggest are great, too, but by just reading
their posts, I couldn't judge whether those magazines might be interesting for me or not (even
though I can take somewhat of a guess what 中国国家地理 might be about... )

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Learn Mandarin online - Funding of AdsoTrans? How to Send Money? -

2008-11-04T08:05:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > Adsotrans.com Forum
Funding of AdsoTrans? How to Send Money?
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waynewalter -

Dave,

How do you fund the development of Adsotrans? It's a great project concept.

Do you accept or refuse donations? I haven't seen a place to make donations.

Do you commit full time to working on this? Is there a company funding it?

Users need to know how to support the project. Also, I'm interested in starting
an unrelated open source project.

Sincerely,
Wayne Walter

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trevelyan -

I collected donations for the textbook site when I was up in Beijing which were put towards
getting site recordings done, but am otherwise paying costs out of pocket. I'll occasionally flirt
with AdSense, but prefer to avoid the screen clutter.

Donations are welcome through paypal, but I wouldn't encourage people to send money unless they
want to earmark the funds for something in particular. The grind is really with data entry and
error-correction. We don't advertise, so word-of-mouth is usually how people hear about us. And
attracting people to the project is the best way to lighten the load.

I'd encourage anyone looking to support the project indirectly to check out ChinesePod, where I
work. Some of the recent error-correction effort has come from the Academic team there as part of
the lesson-prep process.

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Chinese Studies - The Four Great Novels as Ebooks? - Page 3 -

2008-11-03T08:06:00.001-08:00

> Chinese Culture > Art and Literature
The Four Great Novels as Ebooks?
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ipsi() -

All good. I'll put some more stuff up there at some point (Probably the texts for the NPCR series
1 - 4, once they've been scanned and OCR'd). I can convert them to GB2312 and Big5 if people so
desire (Since that's compatible with CJKOS on a Palm...)

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Chinese language - Native vs. Non-Native Mandarin Teachers!! -

2008-11-02T08:05:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
Native vs. Non-Native Mandarin Teachers!!
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Strawberries513 -

I need to get peoples opinions on this if you dont mind (its for my final research paper for a
class). If some people would give their opinions on the following questions please:

1. Would you, as a Mandarin learner, prefer a native or a non-native speaker as a teacher?

2.What do you think are the pro's and con's of Native teachers?

3. What do you think are the pro's and con's of Non-native teachers?

4. How would you say the number of native teachers compares to the number of non-native teachers?

-Thats all. Thanks so much to whoever helps me with this!!

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Shadowdh -

1. Would you, as a Mandarin learner, prefer a native or a non-native speaker as a teacher?

Depends... for listening and speaking a native speaker is essential, but for grammar explanations
then a teacher who is fluent in Chinese but also fluent in the students language (or at least a
language the student is fluent in) is as good more often than not as the subtleties of grammar and
language can be explained with more detail...

2.What do you think are the pro's and con's of Native teachers?

Great for listening practice and correcting the use of the language being learned.
sometimes the nuances/subtleties of the target language are not clear therefore explanation can be
unclear. Also you can have a teacher who does not speak the language clearly enough or well enough
to be able to understand questions or explain language use very well...

3. What do you think are the pro's and con's of Non-native teachers?

Can be very good for learning the grammar and all that goes with that...
Pronunciation and nuances in the language being learned can be off.

4. How would you say the number of native speakers compares to the number of non-native speakers?

Not sure what you mean here... if its ratios then for listening and speaking you would need a
native speaker, for grammar and reading then a non native is ok...

If you mean how many native as opposed to non native then I wouldnt have a clue... but here in the
UK Native speakers are common...

griz326 -

#1 - Native speaker - I don't want to speak Chinese with a southern drawl.

#2 - Presuming teacher competence - native speakers understand the connotative and denotative
meanings associated with words. If they ennunciate and pronounce correctly the learners have a
good start. If there is a problem with the native speaker as a teacher, I would expect it to hinge
on being able to clearly explain the nuances of a language. The native speaker may not speak the
learner's language with great precision and the learners are unlikely to know enough of the
language they are learning to get the subtlities.

#3 - I consider a non-native speakers to be an absolute last resort. While I have met a number of
native Chinese speakers who speak English with proper pronunciation, precise meaning and without
accent, they are way beyond 3 standard deviations. If the teacher cannot say the word correctly,
the students never will. If the teacher does not understand the meaning of the word, the students
never will. They may, however, know grammar better than a native speaker whose perfect grammar may
be intuitive.

#4 - N/A

I am truly looking forward to teaching English in China next year. :-)

Xiao Kui -

I've studied for quite awhile under native teachers, and never had one who was good at explaining
grammatical and usage nuances or could supply the English equivalents of certain sentence
structures, words, and expressions. I think a non-native teacher has the advantage of already
having been through the process of learning Chinese as a foreign language and has a lot more
insight into the learning process as a non-native speaker.

I also think anyone dedicated enough to have pursued teaching Chinese to foreigners as a degree
has probably reached a certain level of accuracy as far as pronunciation is concerned.
I think it's still important to have plenty of exposure to native speakers to help one's
pronunciation and tingli, but for learning things such as grammar, sentence structure, and
especially usage, I think I would prefer a non-native speaker.

atitarev -

Quote:

I've studied for quite awhile under native teachers, and never had one who was good at explaining
grammatical and usage nuances or the equivalents of certain sentence structures, words, and
expressions. I think a non-native teacher has the advantage of already having been through the
process of learning Chinese as a foreign language and has a lot more insight into the learning
process as a non-native speaker.

I agree with this 100%. I actually find native speakers are good for practising Chinese with, but
no offence, not often good for teaching

1) Chinese teachers are often afraid to lose face and it's difficult to discuss with them things,
if it contradicts their opinion.
2) Chinese teachers are often not familiar with the English terminology used to describe their
language or they confuse the terms. So if you want examples, yes native speakers can give more but
when they explain why you say so, you want a professional linguist/teacher.

For the same reason we do prefer foreign language textbooks in our own language, don't we?

I know good Western schools offer grammar taught by non-native and conversation by native speakers.

I would vote for native speakers, if you already have good grounding and have good resources, know
how to use them and your sole goal is conversation practice.

I knew excellent non-native language teachers (a different language), which I wouldn't change for
natives, they can be not 100% fluent or even have some pronunciation flaws but be the best
teachers, I hope it makes sense to someone. To explain my thought: being able to teach, not being
able to speak, is the main criterion for a good teacher (to a certain extent, of course).

eeraser -

I am in America, so I am not exposed to Chinese 24/7, but here is my take on your questions:

1. Would you, as a Mandarin learner, prefer a native or a non-native speaker as a teacher?
A: I prefer a native teacher.

2. What do you think are the pro's and con's of Native teachers?
A: I have found native teachers enunciate better. When it is a non-native speaker, I feel like
they are just repeating sounds, it doesn’t come across naturally. Although there are times when
my teacher cannot say the English word properly and the whole class gets confused.

3. What do you think are the pro's and con's of Non-native teachers?
A: They know where I am coming from since they had to learn the language after childhood as well.

4. How would you say the number of native teachers compares to the number of non-native teachers?
A: I have only seen non-native teachers in videos, all of mine have been native.

Hope this helps, good luck!

leosmith -

Quote:

1. Would you, as a Mandarin learner, prefer a native or a non-native speaker as a teacher?

Native speaker for conversation, self-learning for all other aspects.

Quote:

2.What do you think are the pro's and con's of Native teachers?

pro's-conversation, con's-all other aspects

Quote:

3. What do you think are the pro's and con's of Non-native teachers?

pro's-none; con's-all aspects (that is, for me they compare negatively against natives for
conversation and against self study for all other aspects)

Quote:

4. How would you say the number of native teachers compares to the number of non-native teachers?

There seem to be much more natives over all, mostly in China, trying to teach in China or
increasingly trying to teach using internet. But that's just the feeling I get from google
searches, etc. I don't know the facts.

yonglin -

Native speaker all the way. Actually, I have never had a non-native Chinese teacher, but I have
had plenty of non-native English teachers, under which I learnt a lot less than I did once I got a
native English teacher.

When you're an absolute beginner (of any language, but Chinese in particular), you need to learn
to recognise tones and how to produce sounds accurately, and it's extremely important that you're
exposed only to standard (or "perfect") Chinese not to develop bad habits. I guess some non-native
speakers might be able to do this, but they are kind of rare.

Once you get more advanced, you just don't have anything to benefit from obtaining explanations in
a language other than that in which you're learning, since it would just distract you from
thinking in the target language.

I think the main problem with this thread is that there seems to be an assumption that native
Chinese teachers are less qualified than their non-native counterparts. Obviously, a trained
non-native teacher might be better than a non-trained native teacher in some respects, but such a
comparison is obviously quite pointless. In general, I am very impressed with the teaching skills
of most Chinese teachers of a Chinese as a foreign language (which usually have a university
degree in the subject - far more than we could say about native English teachers teaching English
in China for example...).

Personally, I never had the experience with professional native teachers being unwilling to talk
about particular things because they find it inappropriate. I've had things like 黄电影 listed
on vocabulary sheets. I also particularly remember an occassion when a few of us crazy foreigners
in my beginner's class discussed gay relationships during a break (in English). We then explained
to the teacher what we were talking about, and although she seemed a bit uncomfortable and opposed
to the whole thing, she seemed quite enthusiastic to tell us the Chinese words and the like. I
once asked another of my teachers why she had chosen to do the whole teaching Chinese to
foreigners-thing. Although the main reason seemed to be jumping on the bandwagon (it was the most
popular career choice in her class of Chinese majors) it was also because of curiousity about
other cultures and a willingness to learn more about people with different backgrounds and customs.

If you're unwilling to learn the names of a few grammatical terms in the language you are
learning, that's your problem and you should not blame your teacher for it. Actually, I think it's
quite constructed and artificial to insist on using the grammatical terminology of your own
language to describe another, since there will obviously be a lot of concepts which simply don't
compare. For instance, the grammatical term "complement" will probably be unfamiliar to native
English speakers which have no experience in Chinese, and I don't see why calling it by this name
rather than 补语 would be any better or more intuitive.

I was only able to develop decently fluent and idiomatic English having let go of non-native
teachers. Personally, I think it's quite dangerous always to look for the equivalent way of
expressing something in your mother tongue (or a better language) when acquiring a new language:
the sooner you can abandon the "translation" stage, the sooner you'll get fluent.

-葛亚辉- -

I think I've mentioned my views on this elsewhere, but I'll do so again. Also, I should note that
I've only been taking Chinese for two years at this point

Quote:

1. Would you, as a Mandarin learner, prefer a native or a non-native speaker as a teacher?

Native speaker.

Quote:

2.What do you think are the pro's and con's of Native teachers?

Pros: Flawless pronunciation and fluency, understanding of culture and ability to incorporate that
into lessons (for instance, knowing the backstories of 成语 really helps me remember them...not
that non-native speakers can't learn that, but they're definitely less likely to know it as well)
Cons: Potentially, inability to explain things well in english (although really, after the first
year that doesn't matter much...at least, my teachers this past year spoke basically no english in
class)

Quote:

3. What do you think are the pro's and con's of Non-native teachers?

Pros: Since they learned it too, they can help with study techniques and potentially draw
connections between your native langauge and Chinese that a native teacher might not see.
Cons: Non-native pronunciation (assuming it isn't 大山), less complete understanding of culture
and its connection to language, less complete understanding of idiomatic expressions, and
differences in Chinese between what "sounds good" and what doesn't.

Quote:

4. How would you say the number of native teachers compares to the number of non-native teachers?

Well, I'd say the vast majority are native. I've had 6 native teachers, plus a couple native TAs,
etc, and this summer I'm studying in China so I can only assume all my teachers there will be
native speakers as well...I've never had, or even seen, a non-native Chinese teacher. Certainly,
my school doesn't have them.

flameproof -

Quote:

1. Would you, as a Mandarin learner, prefer a native or a non-native speaker as a teacher?

Non-native, preferably English native speaker. They are FAR better in explaining. Chinese are
hopeless when it comes to explaining anything.

Saying that, just note that MOST chinese are not native Mandarin speakers. Most speak it as 2nd
language.

Quote:

2.What do you think are the pro's and con's of Native teachers?

Chinese have usually no background on their own language (normal for all native speakers). Their
pronunciation can vary a lot. As a starter you have no way to judge their knowledge, and frankly,
there are too many "teachers" out there which have no idea what they are doing.

Quote:

3. What do you think are the pro's and con's of Non-native teachers?

No con as long as you are below their level. A CFL speaker knows the difficulties you have much
better.

Quote:

4. How would you say the number of native teachers compares to the number of non-native teachers?

What is a native speaker? Mandarin is natively only spoken somewhere northwest.

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Chinese Studies - Visa Physical Exam -

2008-11-01T09:06:00.001-07:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
Visa Physical Exam
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Jordan620 -

I browsed through some of the previous threads about the physical exam needed to stay in China. It
seems like a lot of people had to retake the blood tests upon arrival in China. I am scared of the
Chinese hospitals and I would much rather get that stuff done in the US. Is this possible? If I do
it in the US, do I need to go to a specific doctor? Why does China not accept some of the tests? I
am getting a visa to study at BNU for a year starting in September. Your experiences would be
greatly appreciated.

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Songyi -

I had to get my blood work done also along with some other physical tests (x-ray, ECG). If you're
in Beijing, I'm sure there are hospitals there that cater to ex-pats and are really good. If not,
just make sure they use a new needle.

roddy -

The chances of the health check being anything to worry about are minuscule, and it usually seems
to work out cheaper and easier to get it all done here. If you want to worry about something,
Chinese restaurants and roads are much more reasonable fears.

Senzhi -

It's not possible to do the physical exam abroad and have it validated in China, as it is part of
the 'Certificate of Health Examination for International Traveller' document, which is a
requirement to obtain an 'Alien Work Permit' and residence permit. Many countries apply these kind
of rules as part of their entry/exit quarantine policies.

From my personal experience:

Tried to do my physical exam in Ireland, but had to redo it over here.

Hospitals are substandard compared to most (but not all!) European hospitals. Can't talk for the
US.
Just make sure that you check that the needles they use for a blood sample is really sterile, and
has never been used before. (= it needs to come from it's sealed paper envelope, and from nowhere
else).
Should they suddenly find some kind of medical abnormality, demand an independent examination to
confirm or counter the case. No guarantee they will allow it though ... depending on local
government laws. The usual guanxi may help ...

In my case, all went fine, except that they mixed up my blood sample with someone else's. Luckily,
I saw it happen on time. So, keeping your eyes open is definitely necessary.

Again, this is only my experience in Shantou. As mentioned above, I presume most bigger cities
have better facilities to accomodate foreigners ... at a more expensive price. However, if you're
employer is paying for the examination fee (and they should, if you've been invited to this
country), don't expect them to choose a 'fancy' hospital for you.

adrianlondon -

I thought you didn't need a medical exam any more if you had a one-year study visa?

Senzhi -

Not sure but about the student visa, but I do know that even Chinese students pass a medical exam
once they enter university, and once again just before they graduate. This could be a local policy
though, and it's best to contact the university/college where you (intend) to apply for detailed
info.

Jordan620 -

Thanks for your input.

Yea, I found out I don't need it to get the Visa but the information sent to me from BNU said that
I needed to bring it with me to school registration.

Does anyone know if I need to bring a copy of the chest radiograph? Or, do I just need to bring
the results from chest x-ray saying there is nothing abnormal?

Senzhi -

Bringing anything documented is always good practice. Just in case ...

optical -

So what is the final answer on this? Does the exam need to be done in your home country before
departure or is it done after entry? Is this process different if you enter on a visitor visa or a
student visa?

hidden12345 -

Bump, because I was about ask the same question in a new thread.Can someone please give a
definitive answer? I'd rather do the exam once I'm in China than have one more thing to deal with
here in the US, before i leave next month.

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Chinese Speaking - Reading Chinese using Shanghainese pronunciation - Page 3 -

2008-10-31T09:04:00.001-07:00

> Learning Chinese > Non-Mandarin Chinese
Reading Chinese using Shanghainese pronunciation
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gato -

Quote:

I asked a 19 yr girl to read a page out of the book I was reading with Shanghainese pronunciation
and let me record for my own fun, she was totally embarrassed but after 10 mins I convinced her.
When I played it for a male in his 20's he thought it was horrible and said he could do better.

He probably thought it was horrible because she sounded like she had to pause and think about the
Shanghainese pronunciation for a number of the words. When I was in elementary school in Shanghai
in the early 1980s, we used to read out texts in Shanghainese as a joke all the time. But that was
when Mandarin promotion just started and all the kids still spoke Shanghainese outside the
classroom and often inside. The schools nowadays are so Mandarinized that kids' Shanghainese
aren't as good as they used to be. I often hear young Shanghainese adding Mandarin words for
Shanghainese words they don't know when they are having conversations in Shanghainese.

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Tom Higgins -

Quote:

As for words unique to Shanghainese, are there many Shanghainese who are aware that their word for
東西 in Shanghainese, i.e. me zi, is 物事? Or that the word for 錢 in Shanghainese, i.e. tong
di, is 銅鈿?

A thing (东西) in Shanghainese is indeed "me zi" and the characters are 么事. This origin of
this Wu dialect word is of different origin from 东西 is. Another such example is that in
Shanghainese, "to wash" is "da" (汏).

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Chinese Online Class - Differences between Peking University and Tsinghua University -

2008-10-30T09:03:00.001-07:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools > Studying
Chinese in Beijing
Differences between Peking University and Tsinghua University
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Huang Jialuo -

I am very certain, almost completely that I will be going to Beijing city this year's fall
semester to further my knowledge of the Chinese Language.

Because of poor timing, I passed on the date for the application deadline PKU. As a result there
are no more vacancies.
My second option is Tsinghua U. I have to admit that when I was not able to join PKU I was very
devastated.

In any case, I want to know... what are the main and subtle differences between both universities?
Will I be missing much from PKU?

Thank you.

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saiyo -

Here is my two cents...

They are both the best universities in China. In some way, I would say Tsinghua is even better
than Peking. Since you are going to study language, Peking might be a bit stronger in language
courses, since Tsinghua is better known for its sciences and engineering programs -- which, IMHO,
are too strong so as to have put Tsinghua's humanities programs into the shadow: considering the
famous author Zhu Ziqing once taught Chinese literature at Tsinghua...

All in all, hurry up and try to get yourself into Tsinghua! And they are close to each other, so
you won't miss too much fun at both campuses.

gato -

If you are going there to get a PhD in Chinese, it would make a difference. But if you are still a
beginner, the faculty teaching foreigners Chinese is going to be completely different from the
school's regular faculty, so it shouldn't matter, and the prestige of either school is not going
to matter if you are not getting a degree.

You might also want to consider Beijing Normal University, which seems to have a pretty reputation
here for teaching foreigners Chinese.

http://www. /showth...t=tsinghua+bnu
Tsinghua v BNU?

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HSK - 1 fully furnished bdr aparmt in Haidian for rent -

2008-10-29T09:05:00.001-07:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Classifieds
1 fully furnished bdr aparmt in Haidian for rent
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dodo0505 -

one bedroom aptmt, 65 spm, fully furnished, in a superior quality residential distrcit(nice Gym
and 24hour gate guard(u need an access card to go in, very safe)...) in Haidian district. it's
right next to Renmin University, about 15 mins walk to Beijing Foreign Studies University, and
only 15 mins by bus to Beijing University & capital Normal University and Wudaokou area. and
monthly rent is 4200RMB/mth, including Property Management Fee.

if anyone whos interested, please contact me anytime on 13717510430, Fiona. Have a nice day!

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Chinese School - Looking for a pen pal... -

2008-10-28T09:04:00.001-07:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Classifieds
Looking for a pen pal...
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Adrien -

Hello everyone,
I’m a Chinese university student major in English. Like most of the Chinese students I’ve
learnt English for several years but my writing is poor. I’m a sophomore and we have English
writing course in college but I don’t like the teacher who doesn’t teach us how to write, what
is correct but only points out our mistakes. I cannot learn anything from her. So I want to find a
pen pal to whom I can write in English and he/she can write to me in Chinese and we’ll help each
other to correct mistakes, improve both of our foreign languages.
My major is English and I’m very interested in western culture and movies in English. I really
want to exchange ideas with some natives. If you want to improve Chinese or if you’re interested
in China you’re absolutely welcome to write to me.
I don’t know whether it’s allowed to post this kind of notice in this volume, if it’s not
allowed I apologize in advance.
Email me to: Adrien1106@yahoo.com.cn

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Chinese language - Forums Newsletter Ideas - Page 4 -

2008-10-27T09:04:00.001-07:00

> Learning Chinese > Resources and General Study Issues
Forums Newsletter Ideas
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Page 4 of 4 First < 23 4

roddy -

Second edition of the newsletter should be going out soon, depending on how quick off the mark I
am. Any suggestions for what should go in it? And if you haven't noticed, you can now suggest
posts for inclusion via the report post button.

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stephanhodges -

If there have been "introduce yourself" posts within the last month, those could be considered.

Items of interest to upcoming fall students, such as frequent questions, areas of the forum, etc.
There will always be new people each month.

What's planned for the next two months, etc....

stephanhodges -

are you taking paid ads?

roddy -

If anyone offers. Drop me a line via email or the contact form if you are interested.

General areas I can find easy enough - I was hoping that someone would save me the trouble of
finding actual topics, plus what looks dull and pointless to me may well be the best discussion
ever to someone else.

roddy -

Now archiving Newsletters here. Anyone who doesn't want to sign up for the newsletter mailing list
but wants to keep an eye on it can use the forums subscription system for the topic (see under
Thread Tools menu).

simonlaing -

How about the forming of different level online study groups?

Or other organizing tools?

Anyone play chinese chess? What about Luzhan qi (Chinese stratego)? I like the idea of the book
discussion group but are there other ways to join with others and do online activities that use
Chinese?

I am brainstorming.

have fun,
Simon

roddy -

How about starting your own topic for random ideas

roddy -

After a few months of outsourcing, I'm back to writing the newsletters myself for the time being
at least. Now would be a good time for any comments on the content / style / frequency / value of
the said electronic bulletin.

muyongshi -

I think twice a month is more than enough....the rest is fine in my opinion.

roddy -

Yeah, I think once every two weeks is about right, will keep it at that for the time being I think.

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Chinese Class - 帖 & 贴 -

2008-10-26T10:32:00.001-07:00

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
帖 & 贴
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Koneko -

Further to my discussion with bomaci here.

I can now conclude that 帖 & 贴 are actually 同声异体字 after consulting my dictionary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 现代汉语大词典

帖(tie1) 同贴(tie3)

However, I still strongly feel that 帖子 should be pronunced as "tie1zi3" not "tie3zi3"
Change of two third tones, remember?

K.

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againstwind -

Quote:

However, I still strongly feel that 帖子 should be pronunced as "tie1zi3" not "tie3zi3"

I'm afraid that 帖子 should be pronunced as tie3zi5.

According to the 现代汉语词典
帖 tie1
(1)服从；顺从：服服帖帖
（2）妥当；稳当：妥帖

帖 tie3
（1）邀请客人的通知：请贴
（2）旧时写着生辰八字等的纸片：换帖
（3）写着字的纸片：字帖儿（便条）
（4）量词，配合汤药使用：一帖药

帖 tie4
学习书法或绘画时临摹用的样本：碑帖、习字帖、画帖

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Learn Chinese online - Regret - Page 2 -

2008-10-25T09:04:00.001-07:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Regret
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Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

Quest -

Quote:

Quote:
掉垃圾

Whoops, seems like some sort of Cantonese finally infiltrated my brain.

In Cantonese, if the trash is in a bin or a bucket, use 倒. If in bags or in pieces, use 掉.

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Koneko -

I couldn't help but wonder if there's a word in Cantonese for "emptying a bin with a bag of
rubbish in it"...

K.

Quest -

Quote:

I couldn't help but wonder if there's a word in Cantonese for "emptying a bin with a bag of
rubbish in it"...

The action to empty a bin is 倒, and to throw away something from your hand is 丢/掉。

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Chinese language - Online Tefl/tesol -

2008-10-24T09:05:00.001-07:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Teaching English in
China
Online Tefl/tesol
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Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

s6mcmanus -

Hey All:

I was wondering what is the best place to get a TEFL/TESOL degree. Are some places more respected
than others? Is it acceptable to get one online, w/o attending any classes? I plan on teaching
English in China (somehow) and I think this would help me, since I have teaching experience but no
degree.

Thanks!!

Shane Mc Manus

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liuzhou -

What do you mean by a "TEFL/TESOL degree" ?

You can't do a 4-6 week certificate course and find yourself with a 'degree'. Online or off.

s6mcmanus -

Ok. I think I understand now. So the online ones are usually/only certifications? Even so, are
these certificates worth getting? Is one place better to get them than another? Thanks for the
help.

newbie2006 -

Hi

I am thinking of doing an online Tefl Tesol course.

Are they bona fide recognised by schools and if so, does anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks for all your help

n

roddy -

Merging two near-enough identical topics.

For China, a TEFL course is not generally necessary, but it will open up the better jobs and make
you stand out from other candidates. However, there's no widely recognized online TEFL course, and
I'm dubious about the value of a course that doesn't put you in front of real live students. The
only widely recognized TEFL certificate I'm aware of is the CELTA and that's usually four weeks
full time training and is therefore not cheap.

Perhaps someone who's currently teaching English here (or has done so more recently than me) can
comment, but for my money you should either invest in a CELTA if you are planning to teach for
more than a year or two, otherwise don't bother.

s6mcmanus -

Thanks Roddy, always a help!

cellofallon -

A TEFL can be pretty expensive, then accommodation on top if you have to go to a city you don't
live in. There are some year part time ones but that involved being free to do your teaching
practice at times. If you really want to do it, then it's best getting a school to subside it for
you. I think English First subsidise their TEFL course if you agree to go teach for them. This may
be the best option if you are committed to going and don't want to pay too much up front for your
training.

Tracey

kdavid -

Because many places in China are so desperate for white faces, big eyes and high noses, it is
possible for you to get a job without a BA and TEFL.

HOWEVER, not having a TEFL or BA will lessen the chances that you'll get accepted by a legit
school that will honor their contract, or that you'll get to actually choose where you want to go.
Generally, those with TEFLs / BA's can say "I want to work for this school", send their resume,
transcript / degree copies, and then get the job (after the interview, of course.

Though TEFL's are expensive, I think it's a good idea to look into getting one as it opens more
doors as well as prepares you for the classroom. I would not recommend an online TEFL. I think
that's a waste of time and offers no real "training".

Has anyone here done a TEFL / TESOL course in China? If so, where did you do yours, and what do
you think about the experience?

I did my TESOL in Barcelona, so I'm useless for recommending Mainland courses.

optical -

I've been on the job hunt for a while and am finding a lot of jobs that say TESOL is acceptable.

In this thread (dating back to feb 07) no one ever specifically cited any online TESOL courses
that were reputable. Is this still the case now?

nomad -

TEFL (teaching English as a foreign language)- this is when you teach English in China
TESL (teaching English as second language)- this is when you teach English in the USA
TESOL (teaching English to speakers of other languages)-

A good program regardless of name (CELTA, Trinity, TEFL...) should teach a balance between theory
and practice in terms of pedagogy/ methodology, include minimum of 100 instructional hours plus a
practicum teaching component.

If you just want to teach in China, then it doesn't matter what type of certificate you get
(on-line, on-campus, 2 weeks...).

If you're interested in finding out more about TESL/TEFL/TESOL, check out IATEFL (UK) or TESOL
(USA), these are 2 of the biggest organizations that provide information on teaching English.

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Learn Chinese online - I would like some help with Mainland Chinese Mandarin slang-please help me out. -

2008-10-23T09:05:00.001-07:00

> Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary
I would like some help with Mainland Chinese Mandarin slang-please help me out.
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Mavericker -

Hello. I am interested in and am doing research on Mainland Mandarin Chinese slang-Mandarin
Chinese youth, college and street slang.-Can someone please help me out?

I know "nan ren Puo" is a Mandarin slang term for "tomboy". What are Mandarin Chinese slang
synonyms for "tomboy" besides "nan ren puo"?
What is Mandarin slangs for "delinquent girl"?

What are Mandarin slangs that mena "tough female"?
Please let me know, and please list as many translations as possible. Thank you.

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elina -

假小子

yunxiao333 -

We say jia xiao zi(假小子)when this kind of girl was very small,usually they are children,they
are so-called"fake boy".
If you say Nan ren puo（男人婆）,It probably refer to a woman.

Mavericker -

Thank you for responding. Are there any other Mandarin slangs for "Tomboy" that refer to girls?
Please let me know. Thank you.

Mavericker -

I already know about Nan ren puo and jia xiao zi(假小子)-are there any other slangs in Mandarin
for "tomboy"?

jukebox -

You could try using "李宇春" as for tomboy. Sometimes it may insult or offend some people
though.

Mavericker -

Hello jukebox-why would the term you posted be offensive?

gato -

Li Yuchun (李宇春) is the winner of the first Supergirl singing contest. She's widely thought
of as being androgynous.

Here's a photo for your inspection:
http://www.gg88.net/A001/F001W/G0369/

Mavericker -

I went else to ask what is Mandarin slang for "delinquent girl", and these were the terms I was
given:

Female hooligan泼妇 (po fu)
bad(immoral) girl 骚货(sao hou) 骚B (sao bi) 贱货(jian hou)贱B(jian bi)

sao1 B jian4

A female juvenile delinquent--女少年犯(i doubt its a slang) . i know they called 太妹 in HK
movie.
A female punk -- 朋克妞

Does anyone here know any other terms? Please let me know. Thank you.

Mavericker -

Is there anyone else here who can please help me out?

What do they call "Delinquent girls" in Chinese MAndarin slang, besides the ones I posted?

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Chinese Studies - Forum members' post counts -

2008-10-22T09:02:00.001-07:00

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onebir -

In this thread , the OP (bunburryist) has posted twice. But his/her number of posts is just 1.
Wierd huh?

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roddy -

Yeah, there's a minor bug where posts from new members don't always register, so post counts are
sometimes off by one or two. There's a back-end script I can run which should fix it, but it also
looks like it might break lots of other stuff so I just leave it.

onebir -

ok - just wasn't sure if you knew about it...

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Chinese Online Class - Character to words ratio -

2008-10-21T09:06:00.001-07:00

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Character to words ratio
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kdavid -

Seeing how a number of characters seem to be used a number of times in different, and not
necessarily related, words, how many actual characters do you think would be needed to write, say,
the 4,000 most common words used in daily life. And then some, what about 10,000 words?

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roddy -

If you're willing to take the HSK vocab lists as an acceptable take on 'most common words'. you
can come up with this fairly easily:

Level 1: 1033 words, 798 characters
Level 2: 2018 words, 808 characters
Level 3: 2202 words, 598 characters
Level 4: 3569 words, 670 characters

So, rounding off to friendly numbers
Your first 1000 words need 800 characters
Your first 3000 words need 1500 characters
Your first 5000 words need 2100 characters
Your first 8800 words need 2800 characters

The main character learning 'push' would therefore be at the start, assuming of course you are
learning to write. At Level 1 you have to learn 800 characters and you get only 1000 words in
return. But by Level Four you get over three times as many words for less additional characters -
although tragically you still have to actually learn the words, you can't just learn the
characters and wait for them to pop into your head.

kdavid -

That's exactly what I was looking for. Those numbers look like Christmas morning. Now I don't feel
so hopeless. Thanks, Roddy!

Shadowdh -

Yep me too.. thanks Roddy,

this is quite useful info.. I know what you mean about the words though... why is it that when two
characters are combined they can come to mean something completely different to what you
thought... sigh...

HashiriKata -

Quote:

why is it that when two characters are combined they can come to mean something completely
different to what you thought... sigh...

There're 2 possible answers to this:

1. To keep the number of characters down, out of pity for us learners.
2. To frustrate foreigners who try to master the language.

mamba9 -

sounds exactly like chemistry to me. Remove an oxygen and all of a sudden it turns to poison lol.

roddy -

This is a related tool - you can plug in the characters you already know / are learning / dream
vaguely of one day being somewhat familiar with, and it will output the words that those
characters will allow you to write. It can be kind of encouraging to see sometimes how very simple
characters you might learn early on in a writing course - say 中,立,天,文 - can combine to
produce less common bits of vocab like 中立 and 天文.

I'd imagine there's something out there that works in reverse - plug in the vocab you already know
and get a list of the characters you'll need to learn how to write - but I don't know specifically
where.

Hero Doug -

Yeah I'll second that, it is a very promising list. 3000 characters for 10 000 words is a really
nice ratio.

roddy -

Probably also worth noting that as the words are restricted to those on the HSK lists, you'd also
find that those characters give you 'extra' words。笔记本, for example, isn't on the lists,
but you'd be able to write it with characters you'd learn at first level.

Koneko -

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowdh

why is it that when two characters are combined they can come to mean something completely
different to what you thought

I cannot really answer your question here but I think you can discover more through 语素.
语素 is like a "proper" Chinese intermediate grammar once you have mastered most Chinese basic
grammar.

A good knowledge of 语素 will enable you to tell which characters can be combined and used as a
pair, 3-character-word, etc. You will also gain a deeper understanding of the uniqueness of
Chinese characters.

K.

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